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Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by M3L0NM4N on Thursday May 11, 2023 @04:54AM (#35899558)
That is, in my opinion, by far the strongest argument for lower taxes. The money we (the US) do spend in education/healthcare/infrastructure is already poorly utilized, why would we want to spend more and end up like that?

To simplify it dramatically with an example, I'd rather pay $3 on the toll road and $50k for a surgery myself than pay $10 in taxes towards the road and $100k in taxes towards the healthcare system but receive both of them for "free".

I understand the advantages of a social safety net, I do. But misappropriation of someone's hard-earned money is frustrating as well.

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by mullingitover on Thursday May 11, 2023 @05:01AM (#35899603)
Private companies can certainly hold their own when it comes to waste and incompetence. Government doesn’t have a monopoly on these things.
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by vladvasiliu on Thursday May 11, 2023 @05:05AM (#35899650)
Companies certainly can be wasteful and incompetent.

But at least they won't put you in prison if you decide not to buy their product.

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by M3L0NM4N on Thursday May 11, 2023 @05:06AM (#35899654)
Agreed, but private companies also face competition (which incentivizes as little waste as possible) that the government does not.
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by mullingitover on Thursday May 11, 2023 @11:21AM (#35903460)
Competition over the past couple decades is less and less of a factor for private companies, however[1].

[1] https://hbr.org/2018/03/is-lack-of-competition-strangling-th...

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by nickpp on Thursday May 11, 2023 @01:37PM (#35905499)
The harder it is to create a startup in an area, the less competition you’ll have there. Things like regulation and labor protection laws have the unfortunate side effect of discouraging founders to embark in the "startup adventure".
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by dantheman on Thursday May 11, 2023 @05:11AM (#35899690)
Clearly you've never worked in the government.
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by mullingitover on Thursday May 11, 2023 @11:31AM (#35903602)
No, but both my parents spent their careers working in the VA system, which routinely trounces private health care in measures of efficiency.
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by pfannkuchen on Thursday May 11, 2023 @07:21AM (#35900622)
If they do that for long enough though they go out of business. There is not really an equivalent to going out of business in government, or at least the bar is much higher for it to happen (I.e. violent revolution).
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by mullingitover on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:44PM (#35904739)
> There is not really an equivalent to going out of business in government, or at least the bar is much higher for it to happen (I.e. violent revolution)

There's absolutely an equivalent, publicly elected officials lose re-election campaigns all the time.

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by pfannkuchen on Thursday May 11, 2023 @01:19PM (#35905250)
Is a failed government policy generally stopped and corrected by an electoral change in practice? In my experience this almost never happens. Whereas if a company goes under, whatever failed action it was taking just stops happening. Not equivalent IMO.
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by prottog on Thursday May 11, 2023 @03:23PM (#35907141)
Agreed. There is very rarely a sober look back on any government policy to see if it actually met the objectives it set out to achieve, and at what cost.
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by missedthecue on Thursday May 11, 2023 @03:05PM (#35906830)
If a private company wastes too much, it eventually goes out of business.

If a government entity wastes too much money, their budget is increased for the next fiscal year. There is no feedback loop to govern the waste.

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by RangerScience on Thursday May 11, 2023 @05:10AM (#35899687)
Having or not having the money to spend doesn't really seem to be a real factor in whether or not it's spent well.

See: Everything you just talked about and cost-plus contracts. The US demonstrates both.

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by M3L0NM4N on Thursday May 11, 2023 @01:52PM (#35905722)
I agree. Tax rates are a bit of a moot point when money printer go brrr.
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by Animatronio on Thursday May 11, 2023 @05:58AM (#35900001)
Yes, but suppose there's a "road company" you'd have to pay a toll to. Obviously they love profit margins and since they're a monopoly (they own the road) the toll would soon balloon to $20 then $35 then $100.
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by ghiculescu on Thursday May 11, 2023 @06:23AM (#35900197)
Then don’t take the road.

You can’t opt out of high taxes.

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by hef19898 on Thursday May 11, 2023 @06:41AM (#35900307)
And do what, fly?
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by carlmr on Thursday May 11, 2023 @07:43AM (#35900771)
Let them eat cake!
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by hef19898 on Thursday May 11, 2023 @07:47AM (#35900807)
While flying in the skys above the poor plebs in one those soon-to-come eVTOLs?
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by MichaelZuo on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:06PM (#35904202)
Every medium sized city, and above, in the mainland U.S. is serviced by multiple highways.

I highly doubt either any future city government would allow all the highways to be converted to privately owned toll roads.

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by userabchn on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:14PM (#35904322)
I think landowners should declare a value for their property, that is used for taxation, but also allows anyone to immediately buy the land from you at that price. This would allow rival road companies to quickly purchase the land necessary to build an alternative road. Such wasteful duplication would rarely happen in practice, though, because the knowledge that they do not have a guaranteed monopoly, that another company can build an alternative road if they charge exorbitant fees, will keep the charge to use the road reasonable.
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by krger on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:57PM (#35904912)
>I think landowners should declare a value for their property, that is used for taxation, but also allows anyone to immediately buy the land from you at that price. This would allow rival road companies to quickly purchase the land necessary to build an alternative road.

I don't really think "Yankee Swap" is the best model for land management, my guy.

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by Demoloto on Thursday May 11, 2023 @06:35AM (#35900261)
You would never had the chance in the first place to earn this kind of money if it wouldn't be for the society.

Roads, education, healthcare etc.

Also other people work as hard as you do.

And you know of course it's better for you obviously but only as long as you are part of that group.

There is a reason why people do gofundmes after they can't work anymore.

And the riots etc? Guess what social injustice increases either your life risk or the money you spend of protecting you.

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by M3L0NM4N on Thursday May 11, 2023 @06:52PM (#35909420)
I just presented an argument for a specific case. I think you read a little too much into it.
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by deeviant on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:07PM (#35904207)
So because the government is perceived to be bad at stuff, we should instead redistribute (an even greater part of) the wealth to rich people, because they do a really good job bring societal good with their piles of gold?
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by throwaway8582 on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:17PM (#35904353)
Lowering taxes and allowing people to keep their own money qualifies as "redistribution" now?
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by Demoloto on Thursday May 11, 2023 @01:22PM (#35905291)
Yes. Guess who is profiting from higher taxes? Poorer people.

Who has most from low taxes? Rich.

And yes I know I know hn also has plenty of fang people

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by lesuorac on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:10PM (#35904251)
> I'd rather pay $3 on the toll road and $50k for a surgery myself than pay $10 in taxes towards the road and $100k in taxes towards the healthcare system but receive both of them for "free".

That would be a nice scenario to choose to be in.

However, the US _government_ pretty much spends more per-person than those countries with a social net [1]. So in reality, you're paying those taxes of those social countries and also getting to pay private insurance ontop of that. Although current taxes are lower than the social countries since the government's expenditures are debt financed but if the USG were to stop they'd have to raise taxes to pay it with revenue and then you'll be really wondering why you're paying the same in taxes as the EU and not getting EU benefits.

[1]: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.GHED.PP.CD?most_...

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by M3L0NM4N on Thursday May 11, 2023 @01:42PM (#35905550)
Healthcare is its own issue in the US, as I think the general populous is on average a good bit unhealthier than the average Norwegian, for example. I think it's a combination of poor health education (which also goes back to spending) and culture.
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by sharemywin on Thursday May 11, 2023 @02:56PM (#35906662)
but it's all connected.

- cities designed around cars

- bad worker protection laws

- corporate welfare first before human welfare

- monopolies driving up prices.

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by missedthecue on Thursday May 11, 2023 @03:04PM (#35906805)
US cities were based around cars in 1990. But today, the thinnest state (Colorado) is heavier on average than the fattest state in 1990 (Mississippi, also today's national leader)

Walking is obviously better than not walking, but something other than cars is to blame for the ballooning of the American public. 75% of America is either overweight or obese right now. That alone puts you at risk for about a million health issues and diseases.

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by xur17 on Thursday May 11, 2023 @04:57PM (#35908291)
> 75% of America is either overweight or obese right now.

Do you have a citation for that? I'm seeing numbers closer to 30% (which is still bad).

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by missedthecue on Thursday May 11, 2023 @07:12PM (#35909592)
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm

"Percent of adults aged 20 and over with overweight, including obesity: 73.6%"

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by xur17 on Thursday May 11, 2023 @07:16PM (#35909642)
Woah, I stand corrected. That's insane.
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by lesuorac on Thursday May 11, 2023 @07:36PM (#35909832)
The BMI tables are fairly unexpected. 5'8" normal range is 125-158 and at 125 you look like you run the 2 mile in track.

Of course that also shows how many Americans are overweight since the scrawny track kid is considered super skinny.

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by davidw on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:12PM (#35904284)
The IRS recently got a significant amount of funding, and call times went down by a lot.

There are certainly inefficiencies out there, and we should always be trying to root them out, but sometimes if you starve an organization of funding, it doesn't perform very well. Shocker!

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by Invictus0 on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:19PM (#35904379)
No libertarians in a bank run
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by usefulcat on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:26PM (#35904493)
For a fair comparison of health care costs, you would need to know how much that $50K surgery would cost the German government. US health care costs are notoriously high.
Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by zamnos on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:42PM (#35904713)
As long as we're making up numbers though, I'd rather pay $3 for surgery and $3 for road taxes and then have the state pay me $50k in unemployment while I'm recovering from surgery. The reason we have to make people miserable is because of cries about inflation if we just give poor people money but it turns out greedy white collar crimial capitalists are really the root cause.

If the last couple of years proved anything, it's that money is all made up. It doesn't mean anything, like points on HN or Reddit karma. You happen to be able to use money to trade for goods and services, but outside of that, it's a made up numbers game, like Monopoly.

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by jasonlotito on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:45PM (#35904766)
Historically, we've had lower taxes for decades now.

https://taxfoundation.org/historical-income-tax-rates-bracke...

So, you'd have to show that since, let's say 1940, the QoL of Americans has improved as a direct result of lower taxes.

We should be able to look at things like salary, cost of living such as price of homes, education, and food all improving against inflation. So, unless you can do that, your argument for lower taxes is baseless and without merit.

> But misappropriation of someone's hard-earned money is frustrating as well.

Hard-earned money that is earned because of the society supported by the taxes that person pays. Without that society, you would not be earning the same amount. No hard-earned money is earned by an individual in the US.

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by wing-_-nuts on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:56PM (#35904907)
Well, if you understood what we already spent on healthcare you'd know that we spend more per capita than everyone and we have an entire industry whose whole existence is siphoning off their cut of profit from every little transaction.

So yeah, I'd rather have single payer healthcare, and we can just fire all of the leeches.

Re:Startups Are Scooping Up Big Tech’s Cast-Off Workers by vkou on Thursday May 11, 2023 @01:07PM (#35905049)
> The money we (the US) do spend in education/healthcare/infrastructure is already poorly utilized, why would we want to spend more and end up like that?

The whole point of a single-payer system is that you will spend less, by virtue of the government using its single-buyer negotiating power to push down prices.

And also by virtue of firing all the useless parasites and middlemen that create, consume, and shuffle the mountains of paperwork that surround US health insurance, advertising, billing, etc. Unsurprisingly, these middle-men don't look kindly upon being eliminated, and have somehow convinced half the country that if it weren't for their heroic efforts, grandma would never get a cardiac shunt, and that the world would literally end if Medicare was actually allowed to negotiate drug prices.