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Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by king_magic on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @10:08PM (#35896446)
Pretty impossible to respect a CEO that takes a 10% bump but cuts off raises for everyone else.

Honestly, just disgusting.

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by bluefirebrand on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:08PM (#35896866)
Does anyone still actually have much respect for executive levels of big corporations?

All I ever see is more and more naked greed and talking down to employees as if we are idiots that cannot see through their BS.

Like all of the return to office stuff. We all know it's not about "in-person collaboration", but that's the line they think we're most likely to swallow.

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by tombert on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:41PM (#35897112)
I've always thought they were greedy, but one thing that these recent layoffs have really illuminated for me was how utterly stupid these executives are. I guess I had just assumed that Satya Nadella and Sundar Pichai were smart guys...why else would they be in charge of these huge corporations?

But then the layoffs happened, and they both gave a big song and dance about how they're "taking responsibility" (whatever the hell that actually means), and that these were "tough decisions" to fire tens of thousands of people.

It shouldn't require a 10,000 IQ to think that maybe hiring thousands of more people than you actually need is a bad idea, and if they couldn't see shit like this coming, then what value are they actually bringing to company? Vague truisms and platitudes about how they regret having to uproot peoples' lives?

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by bluefirebrand on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:49PM (#35897159)
> why else would they be in charge of these huge corporations?

I think this is the real key.

Why are these people in charge of these huge corporations?

In a world with 8 billion people they cannot be uniquely qualified for those positions, so why them and why not someone else?

Nowadays I always just assume they're someone's buddy.

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by tombert on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:58PM (#35897232)
Yep, I'm basically in the same boat.

Satya Nadella has made it abundantly clear that he's a moron, or at the very least a gambling addict. Does it really make sense for him to be in charge of a company that is worth almost as much as the nominal GDP of Africa [1] [2]?

[1] https://companiesmarketcap.com/microsoft/marketcap/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Africa

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by gymbeaux on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:00AM (#35897250)
Gambling addict?
Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by tombert on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:04AM (#35897277)
Microsoft overhired like crazy in 2021 and 2022, many of which they had to fire later.

This is a bad allocation of funds, but presumably this was done because of the off chance that the market would keep growing and the work for these people would follow.

When you do high-risk things with the express purpose of short-term gains, that's basically just gambling.

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by gymbeaux on Friday May 12, 2023 @12:41PM (#35918622)
Ah. I’d add he’s “gambling with other people’s money”, which is the most colloquially-accepted form of gambling.
Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by zwaps on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:56PM (#35897220)
What makes you say it was a bad idea? Why do you think it didn't work out exactly as planned?
Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by tombert on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:01AM (#35897256)
I mean, it feels almost self-evident that you shouldn't hire more people than you need; if you don't need them then that's not an efficient use of resources.

Now, it's possible they hired all these people in anticipation of future needs, which is fair, but it doesn't take a hyper-genius to know that markets fluctuate, particularly after a global pandemic.

So at this point, either Satya Nadella is so stupid that he didn't know that markets tend to fluctuate, or he's gambling with human lives.

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by anon291 on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:22AM (#35897440)
> I mean, it feels almost self-evident that you shouldn't hire more people than you need; if you don't need them then that's not an efficient use of resources.

The entire point of a low interest rate economy is that, if you have a bunch of cash, you need to put it into something other than a savings account in order to make anything of it. From that perspective, simply paying engineers to sit and twiddle their thumbs all day has the business advantage of preventing your competitors from moving any faster or to prevent your employees from forming future competitors. It's a complete win win for the companies.

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by tombert on Thursday May 11, 2023 @01:00AM (#35897744)
I suppose that’s fair. Maybe Satya isn’t a moron, and is just a sociopath who gambles with humans.
Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by gerash on Thursday May 11, 2023 @01:17AM (#35897880)
hind sight is 20/20. I'm not saying tech CEOs are psychopaths or anything. IMHO they are just incompetent and not worth the salary they receive which is often 500X the average employee.

In fact they remind me of financial advisors who charge you regardless of whether they make you or lose you money and are all consistently worse than passive investment in the long run.

That's how I feel about these overpaid CEOs. They are worth orders of magnitude less than they are paid

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by 8note on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:05AM (#35897291)
The money was better than free. Why wouldn't you hire a bunch of people?
Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by anon291 on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:21AM (#35897427)
> It shouldn't require a 10,000 IQ to think that maybe hiring thousands of more people than you actually need is a bad idea, and if they couldn't see shit like this coming, then what value are they actually bringing to company? Vague truisms and platitudes about how they regret having to uproot peoples' lives?

In what world was it a bad idea for them to hire thousands of people and then fire them? Laying someone off saves tons of costs, and in the meantime, you prevent your competition from utilising those resources. Literally a win-win for them. I say this as someone laid off. I don't understand how this whole trope of 'lay offs are bad for the company that did the laying off' has taken over.

It makes 100% of sense to hire and fire if your competitors are doing it, and you have the money. Microsoft is not suddenly going out of business here.

That's why, as an employee, it's smart to work towards financial independence and just not quite give a whole lot of you know whats. Like when my former boss told me layoffs were expected, that was just a signal that I was going to have way more time to go skiing, which we did.

The main reason so many employees feel like suckers is because they are not as ruthless as their ceos. I changed jobs during the pandemic with the express purpose of maximizing compensation. I made way too much for those years, and when I got laid off, I got free unemployment, free medical, and a free sabbatical. The only ones who were suckers were those who gave their companies loyalty and got laid off anyway. Stop doing that.

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by tombert on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:36AM (#35897561)
> In what world was it a bad idea for them to hire thousands of people and then fire them?

I guess I made the mistake of believing them when they said that they “regret this decision”, and assuming a human level of empathy.

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by gerash on Thursday May 11, 2023 @01:09AM (#35897819)
The promo system I have seen in a FAANG company consistently selected for those who were 1.5X the average employee in terms of competency and 10X the average in terms of greed and shameless-ness.

Put this next to the fact that high level executives are paid upwards of 100X the average employee.

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by deanCommie on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:21PM (#35896945)
10 Million dollar bump

220,000 microsoft employees

Assuming each was in line to get more than a 5$ raise (obviously), the bonus to the CEO MORE than offsets the cost saved to the employees.

From a financial perspective, a bonus to the CEO makes perfect sense. Welcome to capitalism.

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by tombert on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:29PM (#35897000)
Not really. If the CEO was in charge of the direction of the company, and that direction was so bad that they have to make major layoffs and cuts, then they shouldn't be rewarded for this.

This isn't a fucking game. These are human lives. Microsoft laid off 10,000 humans [1] because their idiotic CEO decided it would be a really good idea to overhire like crazy in 2021 and 2022. This was the wrong decision and now they have to do massive layoffs and paycuts.

Compulsively making high-risk decisions in the hope of short term rewards is such a common thing that we actually have a word for it: gambling. This gambling addict has uprooted 10,000 human beings' lives, and yet he still gets a $10,000,000 bonus. Get off your high horse.

[1] https://techcrunch.com/2023/05/09/tech-industry-layoffs/

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by doctor_eval on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:37PM (#35897075)
I agree wholeheartedly with every point you make, except this:

> This isn't a fucking game

That is *exactly* what it is to these people, and I don't doubt that they make use of game theory to make some of these decisions.

Until the rules of the game change, nothing will.

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by tombert on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:42PM (#35897123)
I mean, it's not a game, these idiots in charge are just treating it like one.
Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by zmgsabst on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:23AM (#35897453)
I don’t think game theory supports their actions.

Humans are quite adept at Iterated Prisoner’s Dilemma — and play it even during psychology experiments which are supposed to model other games. (This is the source of most “humans are so irrational!” papers.)

Corporations defecting will bring about defection in response:

What is Microsoft gaining from this play, which offsets their losses during the “next round”?

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by musicale on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:47PM (#35897154)
If Microsoft limits changes to Windows and Office to security patches and bug fixes only for 2023, it could pay huge productivity dividends to the entire world.
Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by ano88888 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:55PM (#35897209)
it is a dangerous simple view and it is why communisum brought so much sufferings because in the real world, it is not that simple though. let's go along with your view. EVERY CEO from EVERY COMPANY must optimize for not hiring more than they think they need. The result would be that there would be much fewer jobs available in the market. Some of the 10000 humans would never get a good paying job in 2021 and 2022. Isn't it a worse outcome for these 10000 human beings?
Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by tombert on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:10AM (#35897335)
I really have no idea what communism has to do with anything so I'll ignore that part.

I'm sure a good percentage of these people quit jobs specifically to work at Microsoft. When they quit those jobs, their employer probably filled that position. Then Microsoft fired those people, and it's likely that a lot of people were unable to go back to their previous positions.

This isn't even taking to account people who moved to Washington or California to work at Microsoft, who sold their homes to move to a place with a substantially higher cost of living.

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by ano88888 on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:20AM (#35897425)
Okay. So to go along with your assummptions. Their old employer filled their old positions. It means another group of people who filled their positions benefited (lets call them group B). group B moved up the career chain. It is annoying that group A needs to find jobs again. But we can assume that group A can find better jobs compared to group B. Overall, it is actually better for society that group B has an oppourtunity to move up their career ladder to fill up the previous job of group A. And then group C will be able to fill the previous jobs of group B. It brings down our society wealth gap.
Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by 8note on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:21AM (#35897430)
You're really downplaying the agency of people who accepted these jobs and their own risk analyses.

Selling your house and moving for a job in a clearly ridiculous job market is going all in on a gamble. Much moreso than nadella did

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by tombert on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:40AM (#35897600)
Most of these people are not lauded as business geniuses and are not in charge of 2 trillion dollar companies.
Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by com2kid on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:55AM (#35897706)
Microsoft has traditionally been a very safe employer, who typically does a very good job of maintaining revenue per employee.

Of course Microsoft also historically benefitted from housing in the surrounding area being 1/2 to 1/3rd what it was in the bay area, so they could pay a lot less. Now that good family housing around MS campus starts at 1.5m, MS has been forced to increase salaries dramatically.

> Selling your house and moving for a job in a clearly ridiculous job market is going all in on a gamble.

Tech hiring had been crazy for years before the pandemic, IMHO pandemic hiring in tech didn't stand out as being particularly odd. Of course looking at the numbers afterwards, we can see how much companies grew, but no one applying for a job in Jan 2021 knew that Microsoft intended to hire 40K people that year.

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by 8note on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:11AM (#35897338)
The laid off people did great while they were employed when they wouldn't have been otherwise.

Getting and extra 100k is real beneficial for each of those 10k people.

If those 10k people took big risks, that's a problem with their own risk management, rather than microsoft's

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by xenity7 on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:32AM (#35897537)
It’s kind of odd to think it’s NEVER correct for a company to do layoffs. The CEOs job is to run the company - if the company is more efficient why shouldn’t the CEO be rewarded? Their job is to run the company not never fire anyone.
Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by tombert on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:38AM (#35897576)
I am afraid that I cannot find the spot where I said they should never do layoffs.

I just don’t think they should be gambling with human lives.

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by com2kid on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:48AM (#35897656)
A company like MS should have systems in place to make employees more productive than they would be at other organizations. (After spending nearly a decade there, that is somewhat true, but it could of course be a lot better[1].)

If a large corporation that has the power to do damn nearly anything can't figure out what to do with ten thousand highly talented software engineers, then some people in leadership need to discover some new sources of bright ideas.

[1] There are things MS is really good at operationally, getting contracts signed, getting marketing efforts in place, localizing software for true world wide releases, security reviews, etc. Sadly they got rid of their engineering excellence org years ago. I once spent over a year looking around for someone who knew SQL who was available to spend half a day helping me optimize a database. Then there is the time my group couldn't find anyone who knew how to write software for Windows...

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by deanCommie on Friday May 12, 2023 @04:15PM (#35921726)
> This isn't a fucking game. These are human lives.

Welcome to Capitalism...

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by djha-skin on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:44PM (#35897132)
This is unfortunately Misjournalism. The article states that the CEO took a 10% raise last year. The article further states that that employees up and down the whole company were getting huge raises last year in an effort to increase the company's approval rating with its own employees. He got a huge raise last year because lots of people got a huge raise last year.

Presumably then he won't get a raise this year along with the other employees as well.

Re:Microsoft's CEO Says No Raises for Full-Time Employees Th... by gymbeaux on Thursday May 11, 2023 @12:00AM (#35897252)
He’ll either get a raise or a performance bonus