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Re:Linux kernel use-after-free in Netfilter, local privilege... by anonymousiam on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @10:05PM (#35882773)
Back in the day when the micro-kernel/monolith flamewars were raging, the arguments for monolith were about improved performance and lower memory usage. I haven't seen much discussion on this topic for years, but at least those two arguments have not aged well.
Re:Linux kernel use-after-free in Netfilter, local privilege... by aflag on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @03:18AM (#35884642)
Why not? It isn't clear to me why monolithic kernel wouldn't still have better performance.
Re:Linux kernel use-after-free in Netfilter, local privilege... by pjmlp on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @04:08AM (#35884931)
It doesn't matter with layers hypervisors, virtualization, containers and sandboxes running on top.

All mitigations to achieve microkernel like capabilities.

Re:Linux kernel use-after-free in Netfilter, local privilege... by aflag on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:03AM (#35886147)
Hm, if you're making the underlying hardware slower, don't you want the kernel to be even faster though?
Re:Linux kernel use-after-free in Netfilter, local privilege... by pjmlp on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @10:14AM (#35887686)
Not when using hypervisor type 1.
Re:Linux kernel use-after-free in Netfilter, local privilege... by aflag on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @02:10PM (#35891120)
Why not? Hypervisor type 1 has less overhead, but it's still not quite the same as running directly on the box. I don't think micro kernels would replace those anyway. To be honest, I don't even really see the connection between running most of the kernel in user space and allowing concurrent systems to run in the same hardware.
Re:Linux kernel use-after-free in Netfilter, local privilege... by snvzz on Friday May 12, 2023 @07:55AM (#35914881)
seL4 with its VMM is a better hypervisor architecture than, say, Xen.

Xen is unfortunately large, and the full hypervisor runs privileged.

With seL4, VM exceptions are forwarded to VMM, which handles them.

From a security standpoint, a VM escape would only yield VMM privileges, which are no higher than that of the VM itself. This is much better than a compromise of Xen, which would compromise all VMs in the system.

Makatea[0] is an effort to build a Qubes-like system using seL4 and its virtualization support. It is currently funded by a NLNet grant.

0. https://trustworthy.systems/projects/TS/makatea

Re:Linux kernel use-after-free in Netfilter, local privilege... by pjmlp on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @04:12AM (#35884960)
Mostly because the cloud is based on microkernel like approach regardless of the kernel.

Hypervisors, userspace drivers, containers, language runtime sandboxes, bytecode deployments, driver and kernel sandboxes (safe kernel / driver guard),container only distributions,...

Re:Linux kernel use-after-free in Netfilter, local privilege... by mananaysiempre on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @07:17AM (#35885900)
Spectre and friends seem to have killed Liedtke’s fast synchronous IPC, unfortunately. Of course, there’s still asynchronous IPC, exokernels (perhaps the closest thing to today’s containers), and so on.