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Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by p1esk on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @09:10PM (#35882427)
What have you tried to do with it?
Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by akiselev on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @10:45PM (#35883057)
Use it to analyze the California & US Code, the California & Federal Codes of Regulation, and bills currently in the California legislation & Congress. It's far from useless but far more useful for creative writing than any kind of understanding or instruction following when it comes to complex topics.

Even performing a map-reduce over large documents to summarize or analyze them for a specific audience is largely beyond it. A 32K context size is a pittance when it comes to a single Title in the USC or CFR, which average into the millions of tokens each.

Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by p1esk on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @11:55PM (#35883471)
Interesting - do you believe average humans (not professional lawyers) would do better on this task?
Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by akiselev on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @12:16AM (#35883592)
Yes. I can parse them just fine after reading a single book called Introduction to Legal Reasoning [1]. I can also autonomously take notes and keep track of a large context using a combination of short and long term memory not having any kind of degree let alone experience or a license to practice law.

How do you think people become lawyers and how smart do you actually think the average lawyer is? The problem is that there's hundreds of thousands if not millions of pages, not that it requires superhuman intelligence to understand.

Even if it were capable of intelligence in the bottom quartile of humanity it would be SO MUCH more useful than it is now because I'd be able run and get something useful out of thousands of models in parallel. As it stands now GPT4 fails miserably at scaling up the kind of reasoning and understanding that even relatively stupid humans are capable of.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Legal-Reasoning-Edward-L...

Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by streakfix on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @12:53AM (#35883769)
Did you try fine tuning gpt4 with that book as input?
Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by akiselev on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @01:07AM (#35883848)
OpenAI doesn't support fine tuning of GPT4 and with context stuffing,the more of the book I include in the input the less of the bills I can include - which, again, are millions of tokens - and the less space there is for memory.
Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by p1esk on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @01:47AM (#35884070)
I believe you. But at the same time they showed during the demo how it can do taxes, using a multi page document. An ability to process longer documents seems more like an engineering challenge rather than a fundamental limitation.
Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by akiselev on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:21AM (#35888696)
Doing taxes using a few small forms designed together by the same agency is not as impressive as you think it is. The instructions are literally printed on the form in English for the kind of people who you consider dumber than ChatGPT.

It quickly breaks down even at 8k with legislation that is even remotely nontrivial.

Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by p1esk on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @12:52PM (#35889999)
The instructions are printed, yet I, and many other people, hire an accountant to do our taxes.

What if someone finds a good practical way to expand the context length to 10M tokens? Do you think such model won't be able to do your task?

It seems like you have an opportunity to compare 8k and 32k GPT-4 variants (I don't) - do you notice the difference?

Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by akiselev on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @04:30PM (#35893057)
> The instructions are printed, yet I, and many other people, hire an accountant to do our taxes.

I can mow my lawn yet I still hire landscapers. That doesn't say anything about the difficulty of cutting grass or the intelligence of a DeWalt lawnmower but about specialization and economic tradeoffs - like the liability insurance accountants carry for their client work.

> What if someone finds a good practical way to expand the context length to 10M tokens? Do you think such model won't be able to do your task?

Not based on the transformer architecture (aka predict next token). It already fails at most of my use cases at 32K by default, unless I go to great lengths to tune the prompt.

> It seems like you have an opportunity to compare 8k and 32k GPT-4 variants (I don't) - do you notice the difference?

32K works better for my use case but requires much more careful prompt "engineering" to keep it from going off the rails. In practice, actually getting full 32K use out of it is a disaster since the connection will drop and I have to resend the entire context with a "continue" message, costing upwards of $10 for what should cost $2-4 per call. I haven't actually tried 32K on as much as a whole USC Title because that would costs thousands.

Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by sjy on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @02:57AM (#35884479)
Fine-tuning requires you to train the model with a set of prompts and desired completions. Building a suitable dataset is not trivial and it's not clear what it would mean to use a book for fine-tuning anyway – masking sentences and paragraphs and training the model to complete them in the book's style?
Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by streakfix on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @03:42AM (#35884775)
> masking sentences and paragraphs and training the model to complete them in the book's style?

That would work.

Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by karpierz on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @12:03AM (#35883522)
Probably not.

I'm not sure that pointing out that LLMs are as useful for parsing legal code as the average human is something to brag about though.

Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by p1esk on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @12:11AM (#35883563)
You're not sure that having an AI which is (at least) as intelligent as an average human is something to brag about? Seriously?
Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by karpierz on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @12:46AM (#35883738)
Where did you get that the LLM was as _intelligent_ as a human?

All we've shown is that LLMs are as useful for parsing legal text as the average human. Which is to say, not.

A dog is also as useful for parsing legal texts as the average human. So is a rock.

Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by p1esk on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @01:11AM (#35883865)
Where did you get that the LLM was as _intelligent_ as a human?

First hand experience -I’ve been using it daily for the past two months.

Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by karpierz on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @01:24AM (#35883949)
Ah, if that's what you mean then there are plenty of intelligent systems out there.

I've used Google search for decades and it's been able to answer questions better than humans ever could. Same for Google Maps, though arguably they're the same system at this point. My calculator is far more intelligent than any human I've met, at least when it comes to adding large numbers. My compiler can detect even the slightest syntax error with impeccable accuracy. Microsoft word has an incredible vocabulary. Wikipedia knows more historical events than any human dead or alive. And so on.

Shit, users thought Eliza was intelligent in the 60s.

If what you really mean is that LLMs are cool and useful, then sure. Just say that instead of couching it in some vague claim of intelligence.

Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by p1esk on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @01:40AM (#35884034)
No, what I meant was GPT-4 is more intelligent than most humans I interact with on a daily basis. In the fullest meaning of that word.
Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by karpierz on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @01:59AM (#35884133)
There are a lot of different ways to interpret the word intelligent, so let me rephrase:

When you say "intelligent", what do you mean exactly?

What might help is describing what specific interactions give you the impression that GPT-4 is intelligent?

Re:Language models can explain neurons in language models by p1esk on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @01:01PM (#35890139)
When I call GPT-4 intelligent I use the word in the same sense as if I met a very smart person (smarter than me), and interacted with them for some time. It's as simple as that.

My interactions with GPT-4 include quite a wide range of questions: "how to talk to my kid in this specific situation", "what could have happened if Germany had won WW2", "what does this code do", "here's an idea for a research paper, let's brainstorm the details and implementation". I can also discuss with it anything that's been written in this thread and I'm sure it would provide intelligent responses (I haven't, btw).