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A comment on EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safety of Children. Parent comment

Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by rayiner on Thursday May 04, 2023 @11:08AM (#35816578)
The opposition to pornography is multifaceted. In particular, most women are opposed, and there’s a significant philosophical basis to that opposition both among conservative feminism but also a significant category of liberal feminism. Even secular people have objections to how porn represents women, and how it socialized young men to think about sex and what normal sexual activity looks like. In the Gallup poll (linked above), the only group where a majority find pornography morally acceptable is men 18-49. Only 1/3 of adult women find it morally acceptable. Among married people it’s only 1/3. Half of women also think sex work should be illegal, compared to only 36% of men: https://www.vox.com/2016/3/11/11203740/prostitution-legal-me....
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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by kodah on Thursday May 04, 2023 @12:05PM (#35817631)
That's changing imo. There are a lot of women that identify as liberal who are morally conservative, but it can be reasoned that this is just the effects of patriarchy that they haven't chosen to prioritize addressing because it doesn't directly benefit them. Freedom from modesty will not be won overnight.
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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by anonymouskimmer on Thursday May 04, 2023 @12:23PM (#35817949)
When your partner can't get it up because they've been abusing porn, you're incentivized to not like it just for personal reasons. And that's without even touching the fact that your partner is getting off to images of someone else.

There's nothing "liberal" about porn. Porn is neither conservative nor liberal, it is libertine.

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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by kodah on Thursday May 04, 2023 @12:31PM (#35818092)
I think a lot of people blame porn for erectile dysfunction, but that's far from a leading cause: https://www.samhealth.org/about-samaritan/news-search/2022/0... and https://www.goodrx.com/conditions/erectile-dysfunction/top-1...

I guess this is also a good time for vulnerability since we're talking patriarchy. I've had periods of erectile dysfunction and they almost always overlapped with periods of intense stress or depression. Other times it had to do with my diet. That didn't stop some people at the time bringing up my porn use, which feels really nasty and humiliating when it happens to you.

That isn't to say there aren't men who desensitize themselves, but I suspect that's more prevalent in young men and more of a minority in general. It is a provocative thing to bring up in conversation.

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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by anonymouskimmer on Thursday May 04, 2023 @12:38PM (#35818196)
Fine, then "can't last as long", or "isn't as in to it".
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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by kodah on Thursday May 04, 2023 @12:42PM (#35818284)
I just find all of this really problematic, but maybe that's just me. I'd never make these assumptions or say these things to a woman.
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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by dragonwriter on Thursday May 04, 2023 @12:24PM (#35817968)
> When your partner can’t get it up because they’ve been abusing porn, you’re incentivized to not like it just for personal reasons.

If your partner prefers interacting with porn to doing so with you, the porn use is a symptom, not the source of the problem.

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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by anonymouskimmer on Thursday May 04, 2023 @12:25PM (#35817991)
Maybe at first, but just like alcohol or any other addiction it becomes its own problem over time.
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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by account42 on Monday May 08, 2023 @05:10AM (#35859604)
Anything enjoyable (and many things that are not even that) can be addicting and in some cases enought to be a problem. That however is not an argument for banning it altogether or that it is morally unacceptable.

And most additictions really are just a symptom for other problems.

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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by LorenPechtel on Thursday May 04, 2023 @01:45PM (#35819344)
I strongly suspect the actual relationship is the other way around--it's a problem with their relationship that drove them to porn.
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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by anonymouskimmer on Thursday May 04, 2023 @02:13PM (#35819754)
Maybe for some, but for people who start with porn before they ever have a relationship, this cannot be the case. At least not entirely.
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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by rayiner on Thursday May 04, 2023 @12:35PM (#35818159)
The problem with this “false consciousness” stuff is that it’s ripe for manipulation. The intellectual foundation of most academic liberalism today is a “bunch of old white guys.” The sexual revolution, similarly, was a bunch of liberal men telling young women not to listen to their mothers.

It is an error to assume that what women “really want” is “freedom from modesty.” It’s clear how that helps men. But how does it help women?

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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by kodah on Thursday May 04, 2023 @12:45PM (#35818352)
Not all of dismantling the patriarchy is about achieving things for women. It's about achieving equality among the sexes. If you want modesty, that's a choice you get to make, if you don't then that's a choice too. The point is not making it a default that people feel obligated to.
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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by rayiner on Thursday May 04, 2023 @02:35PM (#35820090)
That’s just individualistic libertarianism, which is overwhelmingly a male thing. Women benefit from and favor collective moral norm enforcement, because they’re less able to protect themselves individually, and bear higher social costs when things go wrong. Look around at who makes the moral rules in society. From universities to HR departments to churches, it’s women.
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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by kodah on Thursday May 04, 2023 @03:44PM (#35821080)
That sounds silly and overtly sexist. I learned what I said to you by listening to my girlfriend and other women over the years.
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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by rayiner on Thursday May 04, 2023 @08:43PM (#35824019)
And I learned what I said from my wife. What part do you disagree with?
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Re:EARN IT Act Remains a Threat to Liberty, Security, & Safe... by kodah on Friday May 05, 2023 @12:17AM (#35825168)
All of it. It's not accurate to the history of patriarchal deconstruction, who founded it, or the stragies used. If you want an accurate history give this a read: https://www.pacificu.edu/magazine/four-waves-feminism

Fourth wave feminism is where we're at now for context.

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