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Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by fweimer on Monday May 01, 2023 @12:47PM (#35775466)
> In the West, what you do when you leave the office was and is your own business. In the USSR, it was everyone else’s.

Is this actually true? In Germany at least, vacation from work is not truly our own time. We are legally required to use it to relax and restore our capacity for future work. Few people probably see it that way, admittedly.

Of course, there is still a huge difference, but it's awkward to view everything through that us-versus-them lens.

Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by krisoft on Monday May 01, 2023 @01:07PM (#35775802)
> We are legally required to use it to relax and restore our capacity for future work.

What does that mean in practice? Will the police come knocking on your door if they see you digging up the garden? Will someone arrest you if you go sailing and get bonged in the head by accident instead of resting? If you use your vacation days to help your grandma move a grand piano will you get in trouble? If you do your taxes on your vacation day will they refuse your forms?

Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by fweimer on Monday May 01, 2023 @01:23PM (#35776097)
It's not a criminal matter. The employer might bring it up if there is an employment dispute. An employee who regularly comes back from vacation injured or sick is likely to raise some eyebrows (similarly for coming to work every Monday with a massive hangover), but it's totally at the discretion of the employer if they want to do anything about it.

On the other hand, we do get separate sick days (technically even if we get sick during vacation, but I don't know if anyone actually tries to get vacation days back they lost due to sickness). It's very different from countries when you just get time-off days and have to use them for both holidaying and covering sick leaves.

Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by ivan_gammel on Monday May 01, 2023 @01:51PM (#35776535)
>I don't know if anyone actually tries to get vacation days back they lost due to sickness

This does happen, because why not, if it’s your right. I have seen it a few times.

Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by Ekaros on Monday May 01, 2023 @01:25PM (#35776116)
More that you can not get an other job while vacation. Working full time at it.
Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by mustacheemperor on Monday May 01, 2023 @12:58PM (#35775650)
>We are legally required to use it to relax and restore our capacity for future work.

Well that's an interesting bit of trivia. Can you share anything more about it? Just for my own amusement and the amusement of people I will relate it to in the future, I would love to read whatever dry legal code sets that in writing.

Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by bckygldstn on Monday May 01, 2023 @01:06PM (#35775786)
Perhaps the OP is referring to laws preventing employers from asking employees to work while on holiday: https://www.quora.com/Is-there-a-law-in-Germany-or-any-other...
Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by fweimer on Monday May 01, 2023 @01:09PM (#35775841)
It's hard to translate. The law speaks of Erholungsurlaub, which could be translated as “recuperation vacation“. That already sets a clear purpose. There is also a clause that prevents us from working during vacation if that work endangers the purpose of the vacation (that is, recuperation): https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/burlg/__8.html

Other countries have non-competes, employer ownership of things created during off-hours, and so on.

Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by meindnoch on Monday May 01, 2023 @01:07PM (#35775810)
Lol. So you can't remodel your house while on PTO? Somehow I doubt this is the case...
Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by ivan_gammel on Monday May 01, 2023 @01:57PM (#35776617)
Agree. I’m not a legal expert but I’m sure the court would take the side of an employee in such cases. Treating vacation as only a treat for the employee’s body that must rest is nonsense. When you take vacation to work as caregiver for your family member or to improve quality of your life with some home project, or even to dedicate time to your hobby that may be a physical challenge but offers you spiritual fulfillment is perfectly normal. Nobody shall be able to deny you that.
Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by justinpombrio on Monday May 01, 2023 @12:55PM (#35775602)
What do you mean "legally required"? E.g. is there a law that says that specifically, or a common interpretation of a law that says something vaguer, or a common clause in employment contracts, or were you being metaphorical and it isn't actually legal?

I'm from the US, and this sounds very strange to my ears.

Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by izacus on Monday May 01, 2023 @01:32PM (#35776236)
The OP just decided to strangely translate a clause that asks for employees to not demand work during cation (the usual US "I'm still reading my emails") and that they cannot work at another job in that time.
Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by evilspammer on Monday May 01, 2023 @01:05PM (#35775768)
it's more to prevent employers from making you work during vacation
Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by fweimer on Monday May 01, 2023 @01:26PM (#35776150)
Literally, it's about preventing taking a second, paid job during vacation from your first employer. So it's not entirely clear whether this is about protecting employers or employees. As far as I know, non-competes for blue collar workers are uncommon (or at least they used to be).
Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by nicbou on Monday May 01, 2023 @01:43PM (#35776420)
I don't have the immediate texts at hand but I cite sources in my guide about taking time off in Germany. The law is very unambiguous about what vacations are for. A nice example is that if you get sick during your vacation, it counts as sick days and you can use your vacation days at a later time.

https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/vacation-days

My guides about sick leave and sabbaticals just add a bit of context. Sick days are really well protected.

Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by nverno on Monday May 01, 2023 @01:01PM (#35775700)
What are the legal repercussions if you don't use your time off to relax and restore?
Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by nicbou on Monday May 01, 2023 @01:44PM (#35776434)
You are forced to take vacations. What you do with them is beyond your employer's control.
Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by xioxox on Monday May 01, 2023 @02:13PM (#35776829)
I'm not forced to take vacations in Germany by my employer (large research institution). They roll over for a year, but then expire.
Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by nicbou on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @03:05AM (#35784299)
You are forced by law to take at least two consecutive weeks once a year. But yes my employer also allowed this and one of my colleagues had accumulated an absurd amount. You still had to take two weeks but could keep the rest.
Re:Workers of the World, Take PTO by fweimer on Monday May 01, 2023 @01:12PM (#35775899)
As long as the relationship with the employer is fine, none.