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Re:No, the King doesn't own all the swans in Britain by bawolff on Sunday April 30, 2023 @10:13PM (#35768435)
Personally i like it. One of the most dangerous things in government is making a cult of personality around the head of state. Having it be a powerless figurehead takes the bite out of that.
Re:No, the King doesn't own all the swans in Britain by hn_throwaway_99 on Sunday April 30, 2023 @10:29PM (#35768512)
Mussolini came to power as a totalitarian dictator and basically invented fascism (or at least the word) all during the reign of the King of Italy Victor Emmanuel III.
Re:No, the King doesn't own all the swans in Britain by skissane on Sunday April 30, 2023 @11:32PM (#35768825)
The fact that Mussolini was always on paper subservient to the King meant that, once it became obvious that the Axis powers were losing the war, it was possible for the King to remove him. It also enabled the existence of a royalist power base in the military and bureaucracy, beyond fascist control, which played an essential role in Mussolini's downfall.

After President von Hindenburg's death, there was no one left in Germany for Hitler to answer to, not even in theory. That meant there was no legal mechanism to remove him, he could only be removed by violence – and the plot to assassinate him failed. The world could easily have been a better place if Germany had remained a monarchy – even if Hitler still became Chancellor and started World War II and all the rest of his horrid crimes, it would have been far easier to remove and replace him with a new German leader. Germany's generals knew they had lost, and many of them wanted to focus on making sure they surrendered to the Western allies not the Soviets - but Hitler forced them to keep on fighting unwinnable battles instead. With Hitler imprisoned (or maybe even summarily executed to eliminate the risk that devout Nazis would try to free him), the generals could have done as they wanted. Possibly the division of Germany could have been avoided, and large swathes of Eastern Europe could have escaped communism. It also could have resulted in much better treatment of German civilians and POWs, for while the Western allies weren't perfect in that regard, they were significantly more humane than the Soviets were.

Re:No, the King doesn't own all the swans in Britain by sofixa on Monday May 01, 2023 @04:52AM (#35770462)
Agree on Italy, disagree on Germany to an extent.

von Hindenburg being President or Wilhelm being Kaiser changes little assuming a death - in both cases there's a process to get someone to replace them (new elections for President, coronation of the heir apparent). Hitler's popularity and power allowed him to skip the whole process and just assume the position of Parliament too. I think that it would have been harder to do with the position of Kaiser (there were still plenty of monarchists even in Nazi Germany), but he still would have done so or at least done a Horthy, preventing the coronation and keeping himself as regent.

Re:No, the King doesn't own all the swans in Britain by arrowsmith on Monday May 01, 2023 @05:09AM (#35770546)
> the plot to assassinate him failed.

There were actually numerous plots to assassinate him; the July 20th plot is just the most famous (probably because it came the closest to success).

This guy came very close just a few months after WWII started: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Elser

Re:No, the King doesn't own all the swans in Britain by hn_throwaway_99 on Monday May 01, 2023 @10:19AM (#35773112)
Seems like quite the stretch to assume a monarch in Germany would have made any difference, or the presence of a monarch in Italy changed the outcome in any significant way.

Japan also had a monarch, and it took 2 nuclear bombs to get him to surrender.

Re:No, the King doesn't own all the swans in Britain by doikor on Monday May 01, 2023 @02:27AM (#35769648)
This is how a lot of parliamentary democracies work. The president has very little powers and even the ones they do have are mostly ceremonial that can be overridden by the actual government.

Though nothing is stopping the cult of personality from forming around the leader of the government (prime minister).

Re:No, the King doesn't own all the swans in Britain by thaumasiotes on Monday May 01, 2023 @04:05AM (#35770204)
> One of the most dangerous things in government is making a cult of personality around the head of state. Having it be a powerless figurehead takes the bite out of that.

Not really. The cult gives its focus power regardless of the formal structure; that's the point. And in the case of England, the formal structure still supports the king! Forming a personality cult around the King of England is more likely to lead to the King of England reclaiming a lot of power people thought he had lost long ago than it is to defuse the cult when they learn the king isn't supposed to use his formal powers.

Re:No, the King doesn't own all the swans in Britain by mytailorisrich on Monday May 01, 2023 @04:15AM (#35770263)
The UK spends more effort building a personality cult around the Monarch than republics do around their heads of states, though. It's necessary to ensure popular support, which cannot really be based on anything but a personality cult...
Re:No, the King doesn't own all the swans in Britain by WeylandYutani on Monday May 01, 2023 @07:11AM (#35771230)
Have you heard of Mt Rushmore?

I assure you there's nothing even CLOSE to that insanity in European monarchies.

Re:No, the King doesn't own all the swans in Britain by Turing_Machine on Monday May 01, 2023 @09:45AM (#35772695)
I'd reckon that the Palace of Versailles cost a helluva lot more than Mount Rushmore.

Edit: I haven't been able to turn up good numbers for the original cost of Versailles without spending more time than I have to spare at the moment, but on an ongoing basis the annual budget for Versailles is about €100 million, while the annual budget for Mount Rushmore is about $5 million.

Edit #2: Looks like the Brits spend around £50 million annually for the maintenance of royal palaces, and those are still in active use.

Re:No, the King doesn't own all the swans in Britain by arrowsmith on Monday May 01, 2023 @05:28AM (#35770656)
I think the political neutrality of the monarchy is underrated. Yes, we can argue about the pedantic details of whether the King is truly 100% "neutral" on every issue, and the continued existence of the monarchy of itself is a political question, but the fact is that the monarch stays out of politics: from Brexit to Scottish independence to inflation to the small boats crisis to the NHS, the King doesn't tell us his opinion and he keeps his nose out of things.

Which is great! There's enormous value in having a ceremonial national institution which isn't politicised and doesn't split opinion along the typical partisan lines. It's a part of our national identity, something that we all have in common, something that unites us - and in these polarised times we desperately need more things that unite us.

If we replace the monarch with an elected head of state, even a "powerless" and "ceremonial" one, there's no way it won't lead to more polarisation and division.

The other good argument I've heard for keeping the monarchy is that abolishing the monarchy means rewriting the British constitution from the ground up. You can be sure that whichever party is in power will take this opportunity to subtly tweak things to favour themselves. Do you trust them to do it fairly?

Better the devil you know.

Re:No, the King doesn't own all the swans in Britain by hnfong on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @12:18PM (#35789923)
I don't have a stake in this, but just out of curiosity (and sake of argument), why don't you make a rock your King then?

It's possible (but admittedly difficult) to construct a mythology where you make a rock the national identity, and celebrate the rock on special occasions. It lasts for thousands of years, you don't run into problems of succession, and it never betrays anyone, much less express political opinions.

So, why don't you make a rock your King? It seems to fit all your arguments about why a human king is good, and the rock does the job better.

PS: apparently in the US the equivalent is a piece of paper called the constitution. The president, despite what monarchists think, is generally disposable and often just for lols.