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Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by pazimzadeh on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @03:38PM (#35705551)
> She supposedly sat on the image for months without realizing its significance, only for Watson to understand it at a glance.

I don't think that's the lore. The lore is that Franklin sat on the data for months before analyzing it (she wanted to collect more data). Then W+C visited her lab and saw the data, but did not instantly understand it. Instead, the lore is that they figured out the structure of the DNA through a combination of going on daily walks, playing with models, and taking LSD.

It is Linus Pauling who would have been able to instantly figure out the structure of DNA by glancing at photograph 51. His initial theory had been that the phosphates were on the inside of the structure, which in hindsight would never work because the negative charges would repel each other.

Source: I had a good AP Bio teacher

Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by hgsgm on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @04:15PM (#35706101)
Nice shout out to your teacher!
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by zinclozenge on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @04:35PM (#35706393)
As I learned it, Photograph 51 was so good that anybody with any crystallography experience would have been able to tell the structure at a glance. Exactly, like you said she wanted to sit on it and get more data because, allegedly, she had observed Hoogsteen base pairing, or some other non-canonical base pair that escapes me.
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by btilly on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @04:45PM (#35706540)
Today, sure. It's famous.

But as https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/1464518031000160... points out, the analysis technique that makes it possible to deduce the structure from the image was first developed 2 years earlier in a paper by Crick, Cochran and Vand. Note the lead author. In 1953, Francis Crick was one of a handful of people on the planet who would have made the connection. In fact he was able to make it from James Watson's description of the photograph! Rosalind Franklin can be pardoned for having failed to make the connection.

Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by peterfirefly on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @11:59AM (#35715843)
But, but... we were always told that Franklin was an expert crystallographer and that Watson and Crick were bumbling amateurs who knew nothing, NOTHING, about crystallography!
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by btilly on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @12:40PM (#35716495)
Franklin was. Which is why she was the one who actually produced that image. And if the problem could have been solved by deducing the crystalline structure from variant A, she would have been a much better choice.

The fact that Crick was the world expert on the one obscure thing about crystallography that mattered here doesn't mean that Franklin wasn't the real expert. Every expert has gaps in their knowledge.

Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by dekhn on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @12:47PM (#35716588)
Gosling produced the image, not Franklin.
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by peterfirefly on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @01:58PM (#35717635)
Using Fourier transforms doesn't seem obscure to me. It seems to me -- today -- that it is an obvious thing to do. It probably was back then, too, if you were a physicist who was good at math.
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by dekhn on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @05:56PM (#35707253)
The photograph tells you the gross structure ("it's a helix") and also that it's a double helix. It doesn't have any real information of the specific structure/location of the bases. That only came later when full x-ray crystallography of 3D crystals (not 2D pulled fibers) was done.
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by btilly on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @05:01PM (#35706757)
Linus Pauling may have been the better chemist, but Francis Crick was better prepared to figure out the structure from that particular photograph.

The necessary analysis technique was first developed 2 years earlier, in a paper that Crick was the lead author on. Chance favors the prepared mind. And Crick was extremely well-prepared for this task.

Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by zabzonk on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @05:25PM (#35706962)
didn't pauling think that dna was a triple helix? how this could of worked i have never understood.
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by dekhn on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @06:20PM (#35707512)
yes, triple helix with the phosphates (which are highly charged, and thus repelling each other) at the center!
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by nextos on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @05:33PM (#35707035)
I think the real issue is that her boss shared her data with W&C without her permission.
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by pclmulqdq on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @06:04PM (#35707338)
As I understand it, that was the real issue with their work from a scientific integrity perspective. Some people speculate that she would have been the third person on the Nobel prize if she were still alive to receive it (Nobels are given only to living contributors).
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by _Wintermute on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @06:43PM (#35707731)
That's not true. Wilkins had as much right to share that data as Franklin, and everyone seems to forget Raymond Gosling who actually generated the data.
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by smegger001 on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @08:27PM (#35708427)
its almost like all modern scinece is team efforts that only the sufficiently tenured get credit for.
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by anonymouskimmer on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @10:34PM (#35709128)
This is the really important part. The debates about Franklin, Wilkins, Watson and Crick is like a debate about which A-list movie stars deserve the higher paycheck. Yeah, sure, the hagiography of particular individuals will motivate some people below them to dream big, but it's also demotivating to others who know they'll never be recognized as elite.
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by nextos on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @05:05AM (#35711131)
Sure, but I guess there should have been unanimous consent.

This particular issue is quite complicated. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photo_51

Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by bowwoden on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @07:22PM (#35708027)
Schrodinger predicted the double helix structure of DNA decades before it was observed to be fair.
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by khazhoux on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @07:42PM (#35708148)
Maybe he did and maybe he didn't, but what's the value of a completely speculative prediction?
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by subroutine on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @08:03PM (#35708298)
Inspiration, apparently? According to wikipedia, Watson and Crick both credited Schrödinger's book (what is life) as a source of inspiration for their initial research.
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by vixen99 on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @06:14AM (#35711541)
Apart from the amusement that might be had in making it, you never know if further evidence might one day cast new light on it.
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by the__alchemist on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @08:35PM (#35708476)
Where? What is Life is an astounding piece. It influenced Watson, Crick and other biologists, but didn't predict a double helix.
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by peterfirefly on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @04:18AM (#35710808)
It's a wonderful book. I am proud to have a copy :)
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by geysersam on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @02:16AM (#35710124)
Schrodinger predicted some "aperiodic crystal" storing information. No mention of double helix.
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by vixen99 on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @06:20AM (#35711564)
Erwin Chargaff himself a chemist, knew very well the proportion of the bases in DNA since he'd discovered it but didn't put two and two together (Chargaff's ratio).

https://www.encyclopedia.com/science-and-technology/biology-...

Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by j7ake on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @06:27AM (#35711594)
This is false. He wrote something about aperiodic Crystal.
Re:What Rosalind Franklin truly contributed to the discovery... by DoreenMichele on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @02:26AM (#35710172)
You likely know a lot more than I do about this story, but I will note this piece also says:

Franklin had put the photograph aside to concentrate on the A form. She was preparing to transfer to Birkbeck College, also in London, and had been instructed to leave her DNA work behind.