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Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by xiphias2 on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @06:41PM (#35621449)
They should get rid of these terms, as they are distracting.

A big part of the training material for boating license is about learning things that people are not using in practice, which makes less time / mental power to learn what is really important to survive and avoid crash (what's really important).

Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by CardenB on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @06:44PM (#35621494)
They are not distracting. There are many intense situations on a boat, and a crew is required to cooperate in order to survive. This means you must have extremely precise wording to quickly explain what needs to be done. This vocabulary is important for this reason, and is able to sharpen focus, rather than distract.

It requires a process of learning, and that is intentional.

Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by xiphias2 on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @07:24PM (#35621920)
If you look at statistics, most deaths occur in small boats with a crew who have no idea what these words mean, because they don't have a license.

These are the most common reason of fatalities:

- Not wearing a lifejacket or PFD.

- Falling overboard.

- Capsizing, swamping, sinking, or running aground.

- Being involved in a collision.

- Operating a pleasure craft while under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

The goal of the license should be helping these people, not experienced ones, who anyways have more advanced license, not just the basic ones.

Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by CardenB on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @11:02PM (#35623785)
I’m not sure you have really thought this through.

You’re suggesting that people avoid using port and starboard on a boat because they should be focused on learning how to not fall overboard?

Terms like “port” and “starboard” are particularly important when someone falls overboard. The last thing you want to do is tell someone to grab the man overboard “on the right side” and have them go to the wrong side of the boat in a crucial moment. This is why these things exist. We have been sailing for hundreds of years and are very good at it.

Despite this, your entire argument is a bit ridiculous. It is not zero sum- port and starboard do not take up “brain space” that causes you to forget a life jacket. Boat training will help you ensure the safety of the passengers AND teach you “port” and “starboard”.

Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by xiphias2 on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @05:52PM (#35633768)
I'm not sure what boat training you're talking about. I just did my sea boating license last year in Croatia, and it was all in a room, just like the exam.

When I was doing my original boating license, again the practical part on water was about 20 minutes (starting / stopping and saving somebody from water)

I had much more road practice in my road driving license included, and there wasn't anything unnecessary taught there, I still use 90% of the things taught then when I am driving.

Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by stametseater on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @12:31AM (#35624253)
Maybe boat lingo improves safety by keeping people in the mind-frame of being on a boat.
Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by lsaferite on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @06:50PM (#35621548)
In English "right" is one syllable and "starboard" is two. All things considered, using right/left is more concise. If you are aware enough of your orientation on a boat to know where port and starboard are located, you are also aware enough to know where left and right are located.
Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by wpietri on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @06:58PM (#35621655)
Concision is way less important than clarity.
Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by quenched on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @07:17PM (#35621853)
Eg if you're trying to shout over the wind.
Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by int_19h on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @03:53PM (#35632536)
Although from the same perspective the phonetic similarity "port" and "board" is probably not ideal, either.
Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by wpietri on Thursday April 20, 2023 @09:51AM (#35639910)
In practice, and perhaps because of this, the pronunciation of "starboard" is heavy on the "star", with the latter part ending up more like "brd" or "b'd". Indeed, you can find the word written as "starb'd".
Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by anilakar on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @01:58AM (#35624728)
Clarity stems from brevity i.e. concise, carefully chosen words that leave no room for ambiguity.
Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by wpietri on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @02:17PM (#35631446)
Clarity absolutely does not stem from brevity. Brevity is good, but it pushes toward ambiguity, not clarity.

For example, consider spelling a word. The briefest approach is to say the names of letters. But these are similar, often differing only in one phoneme. E.g., P and B differentiating sounds are both bilabial plosives, differing only in whether they are voiced. But people for whom clarity is important will use something like the NATO Phonetic Alphabet. There, you'd say "papa" and "bravo". [1] It is much less brief, but much more clear.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_phonetic_alphabet

Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by anilakar on Friday April 21, 2023 @02:59AM (#35650560)
We might have a different view on what "brevity" means, then. The ITU/NATO alphabet you mentioned is a prime example of brevity. Other examples include those used by air traffic control and fighter pilots.
Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by hooverd on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @07:18PM (#35621857)
I'd bet port and starboard are easier to communicate unambiguously than left and right. Absolute positioning, one syllable vs two, different ending sounds vs both ending a "tuh" sound.
Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by CardenB on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @08:15PM (#35622446)
You spend much at least one more syllable to indicate which frame of reference (local or boat). It’s easier to map it to a vocab word.
Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by eternityforest on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @11:32PM (#35623962)
The different number of syllables are like a checksum.

Plus, that's not how brains work. Using a word for different things that change depending on context is like reusing a variable, with a compiler that randomizes global and local scope. In aviation they watch out for "Regression to prior learning", in the kitchen I watch out for putting something in the microwave instead of the fridge because the action is similar.

If you ask me which way is left, I'll have to stop and think not only about what left and right even mean, probably looking at my hand to see what makes the L shape, but I'll have to wonder who's left you're referring to, in addition to performing a mental rotation, an extremely error prone operation that I basically avoid at all costs, if my heading is not the same as the ships.

Any small about of simplification or added reliability there is a good thing.

Especially in historical context. Assuming the port and starboard were not mostly symmetric and had features specific to docking and steering, you're actually referring to something specific, not an abstract direction.

These conventions are designed for the 95%, not the 5% or 75% or whatever who can instantly tell which way is left relative to any given orientation without any effort.

Re:Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left”... by seabass-labrax on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @05:34PM (#35633591)
> ...in the kitchen I watch out for putting something in the microwave instead of the fridge because the action is similar

A familiar experience... I have to catch myself when I start to throw the spoon into the bin and the teabag into the dishwasher!