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Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by bigger_inside on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @01:34PM (#35617134)
I've never used linux. After a hundred frustrations with my new laptop that runs Win11, I'm now looking to install ubuntu. Windows pushed me there.
Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by eimrine on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @02:37PM (#35618046)
Debian-based distribs are very beginner-friendly and Ubuntu's forum is full of helpful users.
Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by hef19898 on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @04:29PM (#35619599)
Ubuntu was my pick, main reasom being that it is the distro Lenovo is offering and thus guaranteed to work with my Lenovo laptop. Agree on the usefull forums and information.

No idea how it compares to other distros, I never tried any. It is a breath of fresh air compared to Windows 10 so!

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by petepete on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @07:43PM (#35622090)
If you have a ThinkPad, RHEL is supported on nearly every machine Ubuntu is.

https://www.lenovo.com/linux

Fedora works flawlessly in my experience.

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by chappi42 on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @03:01PM (#35618405)
Have a look at Pop!_OS too.
Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by troad on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @03:30PM (#35618858)
I was at this point a few years back, and I am so happy having made the switch. Kubuntu is my strong recommendation for any switcher's first distro, but there's a lot of great options out there.
Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by snvzz on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @04:14PM (#35619398)
Arch Linux.

Great community and excellent documentation wiki that'll hold your hand every step of the way.

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by artogahr on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @04:20PM (#35619463)
hold your hand... if you have a hand to begin with. Most beginner users won't be able to follow most things in the Arch wiki.
Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by snvzz on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @04:38PM (#35619727)
I installed Gentoo when it was new with far less handholding. I was a child.

If you're literate enough to be able to read the wiki, you can manage to install, use every day, and get good at, Arch Linux.

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by johnisgood on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @05:30AM (#35626149)
Yup, I installed Gentoo more than a decade ago, I was about 13, and my native language is not English.

"Most" beginners just lack the patience and energy or motivation and cannot or do not want to follow instructions or read documentation at all.

If you do not have enough dedication, just go with a beginner-friendly distribution or whatever.

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by theodric on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @05:11PM (#35620240)
Install Arch, get everything working, and DO NOT install updates. I've never had another distro that would randomly render itself unbootable or break core functionality with such frequency with the simple weekly application of updates. Really distressing.
Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by snvzz on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @06:40PM (#35621443)
Wow.

I have used Arch as my main system for 6 years now (was Gentoo before) and never had anything of the sort.

How does this even happen?

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by agiacalone on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @11:59PM (#35624097)
It happened to me on Arch during the switch from init to systemd.

Update was documented, but I didn’t look. Did my `pacman -syua` as I normally did on a daily, and rebooted to a totally borked system. This is when I was a grad student and really needed that laptop that week.

I still love Arch, but I can’t trust it anymore as a daily driver.

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by Tommstein on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @07:09PM (#35621772)
lolwut. My current Arch install has been going strong for over 12 years, and it has very rarely broken, and when it has, very often it's because I went a long time without updating, and/or the issue and fix are mentioned right on the front page of archlinux.org. Gentoo, on the other hand, is (or was when I used it) as you describe, where every other update would randomly break the system and they would tell you on IRC "don't use it if you don't like it, it's free," which was solid advice that I adopted.
Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by snvzz on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @11:02PM (#35623787)
>Gentoo, on the other hand, is (or was when I used it) as you describe, where every other update would randomly break the system and they would tell you on IRC "don't use it if you don't like it, it's free," which was solid advice that I adopted.

Gentoo would break a lot when I used it, and I also learned a lot by getting it to work when it broke.

But I do not blame Gentoo for it. It was mostly my fault, for using ~x86 ("testing" keyword) instead of x86.

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by Zak on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @06:29PM (#35621319)
Arch Linux is a great choice for someone who wants to know Linux. I am writing this comment from Arch Linux.

Arch Linux is not a great choice for someone who just wants to use Linux. There's a lot of learning just to install it, while less expert-oriented distributions can have a system up and running in 20 minutes with very little expertise on the part of the user.

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by snvzz on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @06:41PM (#35621450)
Serious question here: Why would someone NOT want to know Linux?

When ignoring the short term, what's the advantage, if any, of using a system without mastering it?

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by solraph on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @07:37PM (#35622039)
Because they have other things they need to do, and mastering it may not provide benefits that repay the investment.

I say this as someone who has run Linux on the Desktop for over 20 years. I do not give a crap about knowing the ins and outs of everything on my system. I have zero interest in learning how bluetooth & Wifi & and all of the hundred other subsystems on my computers work. 99% of the time I want to install the OS, and get on with work.

Sometimes that work means getting down and dirty with a subsystem when I want it to do things that isn't on the normal happy path, but the rest of the time, I want Wifi to autoconnect with a saved password and my bluetooth headphones to autoconnect like a normal person and not futz around learning the intricacies of every daemon and config file in the OS.

It's same reason I pay someone else to service my car. I have fully capable of learning to do it, but I don't care. I have better things to do with my time and money, and there's only so many hours in the day.

(Several edits because I misplaced lots of words pre-coffee)

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by midoridensha on Friday April 21, 2023 @12:33AM (#35649826)
I've also run Linux on the desktop for over 20 years. Knowing everything in the system is probably nearly impossible unless you're a professional sysadm, like people who specialize in what's called devops now. I agree; I don't want to memorize systemd commands or configure WiFi from the command line; there's convenient GUI tools for things now and it's easy to just work on other things. Even as a developer in a Linux-only environment, I let the devops/infrastructure people deal with most problems if I have them, though of course the corporate computing environment is a lot more complex than my home setup.

I disagree about cars though. Back when I had a car, I did my own work, because it took less time and would be done properly. Unless you have a chauffeur or something (or take Uber I guess, but that costs more money), it takes a lot of time to have someone else service your car: you have to drive it to the shop, then sit there for a while until they can get to it, then sit there while they do the work, then sit around a while longer until they can finally check you out (while also trying to upsell you a bunch of crap), then drive home. Then you find out later they messed something up, got grease on your carpet, etc. Even if they fix that, that's even more time you have to spend. It was a lot easier for me to just do it myself. Someone will probably say something about "loaners" here, but that's usually for larger jobs, not just oil changes.

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by bodge5000 on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @10:46PM (#35623680)
For the record I don't use Arch, I use Fedora, but I know Linux reasonably well. That being said, I would greatly enjoy the chance to learn it better.

I also want to learn Rust, Zig, Nim, D, Go, GLSL, Lobster looks interesting, some game frameworks (Bevy, Monogame, Raylib and Pyglet come to mind), Supercollider, Flutter, LLM's, Ruby on Rails, and a bunch of other stuff I can't even remember.

Learning linux simply has to wait its line in the queue, and unless I happen to master it naturally using Fedora, with that queue ever growing, I'm not sure its time will ever come. Maybe, but then I want to say that for all the above too.

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by midoridensha on Thursday April 20, 2023 @05:00AM (#35637773)
Do you own and drive a car? Do you know how to rebuild the engine? Why not? Can you drive it as well as a professional race car driver? Why not? Why aren't you taking all your free time to master these skills?
Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by snvzz on Monday May 01, 2023 @04:32PM (#35778747)
>Do you own and drive a car?

No and no.

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by rolph on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @04:32PM (#35619644)
* * *
Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by Rimintil on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @04:38PM (#35619728)
You'll be trading one set of known frustrations with another set of unknown frustrations.

A few years ago, I ran Fedora w/ KDE Plasma. What _seemed_ to be random is the GTK fonts throughout the UI changed to a mono-spaced font regardless of what the control panel showed.

It "resolved itself" within a few weeks.

I don't know if it was an update that caused and subsequently resolved the issue, or something else I did.

This was just one of many hair-pulling examples I ran into across KDE Plasma and Gnome on Fedora.

I have different frustrations with both Windows and macOS.

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by Dah00n on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @05:09PM (#35620209)
I'm not disagreeing with your point, but I don't think those frustrations are comparable with advertising in the Start menu and file browser. I also find it funny that you mention problems with fonts as this is an area where I believe both Linux and macOS are ahead of Windows.
Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by Rimintil on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @10:55AM (#35628901)
> fonts as this is an area where I believe both Linux and macOS are ahead of Windows.

Windows caught up quite some time ago to macOS. I don't see Linux as superior with font handling. Certainly lacks on the rendering side of things (DPI etc).

> comparable with advertising in the Start menu and file browser

Wouldn't know. I use Win 11 Pro so those updates don't seem to have come down to it (yet?) and use Win 10 Ent at work where those will never arrive.

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by dlivingston on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @04:30PM (#35632933)
> Windows caught up quite some time ago to macOS

How so? I use Windows 10/11 at work and macOS at home, and Mac's font rendering is light-years ahead of Windows IMO. The font rendering subsystem is why macOS is the go-to choice for graphic designers IIRC.

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by Rimintil on Thursday April 20, 2023 @08:58AM (#35639252)
> The font rendering subsystem is why macOS is the go-to choice for graphic designers IIRC.

Nah, it was for the color accuracy of _classic_ Mac OS. Windows caught up in the Vista timeframe.

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by bsder on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @06:09PM (#35621062)
> I have different frustrations with both Windows and macOS.

Agreed.

However, I can continue to feed the Microsoft maw, or I can make a different choice. I choose to tell Microsoft to pound sand.

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by robswc on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @05:20PM (#35620379)
I get so frustrated when I have to do _anything_ with my Microsoft account that never needed it before.

Installing and running docker on windows was a nightmare lol

Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by donkeybeer on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @04:49AM (#35698030)
Beware of snaps. Ubuntu would have been my recommendation too until recently. Also avoid gnome, I'd advise xfce personally.
Re:Windows 11 Start menu ads look set to get even worse – th... by donkeybeer on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @02:27PM (#35704628)
I'd really not like spamming this again but I should strongly emphasize, stay away from snap and gnome, you would be completely put off computing if you are escaping modern Windows and come to Ubuntu and then experience this nonsense the first thing. They are the same tarpit of user hostile software requiring you fighting your computer 24x7. Some people might disagree about gnome perhaps, but they have a long and well documented history of nastiness, removing features, rewriting everything, deliberately not solving certain bug/feature requests for several years. And since they are de facto in control of gtk now, its also bleeding there too. There are talks of killing theming in gtk 4/5 for example.

And snaps are basically an all in one packaging solution, the main evil relevant to you are forced updates and officially speaking there is no way around it last I checked, at best you can set a grace period. Also they put files in weird locations so good luck trying to edit their settings, etc.