Re:Killing Sparrows Led to Great Famines in China
by dirtyid on Friday April 14, 2023 @08:09PM
(#35576384)
Your reading comprehension needs work.
I said owning slaves and other vices don't matter much. I'm not disagreeing that personal vices are bad/net negative. I'm asserting they aren't weighed significantly when assessing significant historic leadership performance.
And lol where did I say I didn't read mao bios. Literally said "read many Mao bios". I'm familiar / read with many. They're simply bad narratives in light of data. Fact that you don't know WB report while latching on the "one" book you've read is reflection on poor understanding of subject matter. Go dig it up WB report at your reference library. I've quoted actual credible data on Mao's performance, which again are pre Deng indicators where under Mao policies in aggregate massively out performs relevant peers. With actual numbers in reply that you pretend do not exist. I've explicitly highlighted level of industrialization and life expectancy. Again, pre Deng because I know how time works.
Deng's market reforms not possible without Mao's industrial/cultural reforms. Without Mao whipping up industrial base first and people into common national identity Deng would not have appropriate human capita to harness. They build off each other. Their policies work in tandem, not one superior to other. That's the argument that Mao bad Deng good memes miss. See India who couldn't violently reform traditions spinning wheels while PRC exploded. Or most other developing countries stuck in internecine nightmares because leadership couldn't do hard things to jump start conditions for growth.
And yes killing fuckload of people is pretty much small demerit with respect to human history, especially China's. Big demerit is Mao losing Mongolia. Stuff that reverberates throughout time, not fungible bodies replaced within a generation.
And no, not Mao fanboy. Just someone actually familiar with PRC development history and agrees with 30/70 assessment. Learn to read better and find data, i.e. actual economic / HDI indicators of appropriate time period to show Mao's PRC underperformed relative to peers and we'll talk.
I said owning slaves and other vices don't matter much. I'm not disagreeing that personal vices are bad/net negative. I'm asserting they aren't weighed significantly when assessing significant historic leadership performance.
And lol where did I say I didn't read mao bios. Literally said "read many Mao bios". I'm familiar / read with many. They're simply bad narratives in light of data. Fact that you don't know WB report while latching on the "one" book you've read is reflection on poor understanding of subject matter. Go dig it up WB report at your reference library. I've quoted actual credible data on Mao's performance, which again are pre Deng indicators where under Mao policies in aggregate massively out performs relevant peers. With actual numbers in reply that you pretend do not exist. I've explicitly highlighted level of industrialization and life expectancy. Again, pre Deng because I know how time works.
Deng's market reforms not possible without Mao's industrial/cultural reforms. Without Mao whipping up industrial base first and people into common national identity Deng would not have appropriate human capita to harness. They build off each other. Their policies work in tandem, not one superior to other. That's the argument that Mao bad Deng good memes miss. See India who couldn't violently reform traditions spinning wheels while PRC exploded. Or most other developing countries stuck in internecine nightmares because leadership couldn't do hard things to jump start conditions for growth.
And yes killing fuckload of people is pretty much small demerit with respect to human history, especially China's. Big demerit is Mao losing Mongolia. Stuff that reverberates throughout time, not fungible bodies replaced within a generation.
And no, not Mao fanboy. Just someone actually familiar with PRC development history and agrees with 30/70 assessment. Learn to read better and find data, i.e. actual economic / HDI indicators of appropriate time period to show Mao's PRC underperformed relative to peers and we'll talk.