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Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by NotYourLawyer on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @06:45PM (#35548084)
> he was caught by linking fraud wallet to exchange wallet

How are you supposed to turn fraudulently obtained btc into dollars without doing that?

Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by from on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @07:34PM (#35548608)
I assume people involved in this sort of activity would convert to Monero first (can be done without KYC in a 100 different places). Then they would go to localmonero or a site like it and select cash in the mail. They would round to the nearest XMR at a time when transacting on localmonero so that even if the exchangers they used were compromised the government wouldn't be able to link them to the initial BTC->XMR swap based on transaction amounts.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by PeterisP on Thursday April 13, 2023 @06:00AM (#35553230)
Not at this scale. You can do many transactions in the way that you describe and perhaps withdraw a million dollars, but you can't launder a billion dollars this way.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by yieldcrv on Thursday April 13, 2023 @08:00AM (#35554098)
rolls eyes

Not at once

He was doing it over 6 years no problem

You don’t need a billion, you need a few million and he got that and it wasn’t even part of the investigation or why he got caught

Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by dragonwriter on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @07:30PM (#35548558)
> How are you supposed to turn fraudulently obtained btc into dollars without doing that?

That’s the neat thing… You don’t.

Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by caminante on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @07:52PM (#35548799)
But AFAIK, you can launder cryptos, right? [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency_tumbler#

Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by acdha on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @08:44PM (#35549312)
You can, but this is the kind of thing which is very easy to get wrong in ways which are significant legal risks on their own.

For example, if you were some random cryptobro buying personal quantities of drugs in 2015 there’s some risk but the FBI probably isn’t going to spend time on something that small. If you do anything which reveals funds going to or from a tumbler, however, the risk isn’t just KYC but also questions like who else used that tumbler - if you were participating at the same time the North Koreans or a big ransomware ring were laundering something, that traffic might be a lot more likely to get analyzed and in the worst case scenario some agents show up trying to get you to convince them that you were unwitting small fry and not hiding more. Lying to them is a federal crime, too, so even if you nothing other than tumble coins for ideological reasons you’d want to be very careful about what you say – and think about how hard it could be to prove you didn’t know the other parties in a transaction.

Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by caminante on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @09:21PM (#35549591)
The topic is "laundering BTC into dollars".

You're referring to the risk of getting chased down for the "bad deeds" of others after funds are co-mingled. You're not explaining that it's prohibitively risky or not possible.

Further, I'm only aware of tumbling blacklisting [0], where the exchange gets blacklisted for co-mingling known dirty funds. AFAIK, there are still sizable tumbling vectors.

[0] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/08/crypto-mixing-service-tornad...

Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by acdha on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:51PM (#35550296)
My point was simply that your options with Bitcoin for converting it into real currency or goods are either easily tracked (mainstream exchange following KYC laws) or push you into riskier activities. As with most things, the odds of getting caught aren’t certain but one somewhat unique risk to most cryptocurrencies is that you have to estimate the risk of retroactive punishment since the ledger is irrevocably public.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by UncleEntity on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @09:42PM (#35549758)
> …and think about how hard it could be to prove you didn’t know the other parties in a transaction.

They have to prove you committed a crime, all you need to do is have a lawyer present during questioning.

Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by nobody9999 on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:50PM (#35550284)
>They have to prove you committed a crime, all you need to do is have a lawyer present during questioning.

That's a good idea, but any decent lawyer will tell you to keep your mouth shut. Especially when being questioned. Let the lawyer do the talking[0].

[0] That assumes you have a good lawyer. Which may or may not be a valid assumption.

Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by acdha on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:55PM (#35550316)
That’s already stressful and expensive but consider also that you’re probably only having that conversation if they already have evidence for at least one crime (disclosure and/or taxes). That is likely going to be grounds for a search warrant to examine everything else, and even if that’s ultimately fruitless it’d be an ordeal and could lead to professional consequences as well as things like losing your devices to a forensic lab.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by nobody9999 on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:47PM (#35550259)
>Lying to them is a federal crime, too, so even if you nothing other than tumble coins for ideological reasons you’d want to be very careful about what you say – and think about how hard it could be to prove you didn’t know the other parties in a transaction.

This is true. However, I'd present a few caveats:

1. Even though it's a felony to lie to Federal (and some state/local) law enforcement in the US, you can just not speak to them. In fact, you should mostly not talk to the police under any circumstances. There are many reasons for this. Too many for me to list here. However, this attorney and a former police officer[0] (48 minute video, but well worth it. Share it with your friends and family too!) provide all those reasons.

2. Law enforcement aren't superhuman. They're just as dumb (or smart, but the really smart ones end up in corner offices rather than police stations like police and more common criminals) as the next guy. Their big advantage, especially in a circumstance like this, is that they only have to get it right (i.e., find some evidence) once. The alleged perpetrator of a crime needs to get it right (in covering their tracks, destroying evidence, etc.) every single time to make sure they aren't identified and caught.

So, unless you're prepared to cover your tracks (in this case, it was bitcoin transactions) over and over forever, you run the risk of being caught -- eventually.

I'll say it again, because it's an important point: If you're in the US (not just a citizen, anyone present within its borders), DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE!

I'm sure things are different elsewhere (perhaps someone could expound on that?), but in the US, just STFU.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by acdha on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @11:12PM (#35550453)
> So, unless you're prepared to cover your tracks (in this case, it was bitcoin transactions) over and over forever, you run the risk of being caught -- eventually.

This is really the main thing I was thinking about: it’s been bizarre how the salespeople kept going on about bitcoin being anonymous when it’s more like “if you do everything perfectly, you probably won’t be tracked. As far as we know now.”, which is just incredibly fragile.

Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by nanidin on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @06:53PM (#35548169)
I believe you can buy envelopes of cash on the darknet - though then you’re probably at high risk of receiving counterfeits or running into a sting.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by from on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @07:40PM (#35548678)
There is a reputation system on basically all p2p exchange sites, they wouldn't be able to scam for long.

> running into a sting

This was the basis of Operation Dark Gold. They had a ton of other evidence against the people they rounded up, I think it just helped them find targets. Receiving cash in the mail is not illegal.

Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by jeffy90 on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @06:56PM (#35548189)
How do you get the physical envelopes of cash without detection?
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by thehappypm on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @07:05PM (#35548284)
Is that really challenging? Mailing paper through the mail without getting flagged? Sending money isn’t illegal in and of itself.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by mynameishere on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @06:59PM (#35548222)
Use someone else's address and rob their mailbox.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by Red_Leaves_Flyy on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @07:15PM (#35548395)
Federal crime right there. Add conspiracy too.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by chx on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @08:13PM (#35549012)
Not only it is a federal crime punishable by five years , there is a specialized police force for it, the USPS Postal Inspectors.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by antibasilisk on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @07:24PM (#35548489)
You also have to contend with a terrible conversion rate.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by caminante on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @07:40PM (#35548687)
"terrible"?

We're talking about 1e9 orders of magnitude, here. I'll take that fraction.

Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by antibasilisk on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @08:45PM (#35549321)
I've never seen a conversion rate that good on BTC-cash
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by paulpauper on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @08:52PM (#35549384)
by simply using a third wallet that does not link the two? HIs mistake was a rookie move that could have been avoided but he got lazy. Lazy criminals make law enforcement's job easier.

https://twitter.com/Rarest2012/status/1646211056782524442

Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by NotYourLawyer on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @09:44PM (#35549776)
I don’t understand what the third wallet does. If the first wallet is tainted, anybody can just look to see what destination wallets it sends to and follow the trail. Adding an extra wallet doesn’t help.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by acdha on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @11:16PM (#35550476)
This is just part of the Bitcoin sales process: any time a case gets attention showing that a common marketing claim is wrong, the sales guys come up with a reason to say it was the victim’s fault rather than a weakness of the system they’re trying to get you to buy into.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by hanniabu on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @11:17PM (#35550487)
That's the point
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by paulpauper on Thursday April 13, 2023 @12:11AM (#35550853)
It is not about obscuring the trail. It makes it harder to establish probable cause he orchestrated the fraud.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by NotYourLawyer on Thursday April 13, 2023 @08:53AM (#35554637)
That doesn’t wash. Once the feds know who he is, he’s 99% of the way to fucked.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by xwdv on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:14PM (#35549992)
Buy hard assets like real estate with the BTC then sell it off.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @11:24PM (#35550519)
Many ways. Dark valley exchanges. Flying to Dubai and exchanging any amount with draft fleeing Russians. Sending to a Lightning Network wallet, doing a few rounds within the LN and then depositing to an exchange.
Re:The U.S. Cracked a $3.4B Crypto Heist–and Bitcoin’s Anony... by yieldcrv on Thursday April 13, 2023 @07:58AM (#35554077)
He did it for 8 years and even this FBI puff piece relied on an activity in 2020 that has nothing to do with the prior 8 years of cashing out

Nothing about this article suggests any breakthrough in investigative capabilities, it’s pretty embarrassing actually

The government got lucky that someone was trying to get rid of something they found to be a burden in their lives