U.S. proposes 56% vehicle emissions cut by 2032, requiring big EV jump

Re:U.S. proposes 56% vehicle emissions cut by 2032, requirin... by ajross on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @12:40PM (#35542540)

Naively that's going to end up disproportionately penalizing EVs[1], which sounds exactly backwards to me. "Weight" is not the correct factor to optimize, basically.

[1] Which are heavy, because they can't source 2/3 of their reaction mass from the atmosphere and have to keep all the reactants in the battery at all time.

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Re:U.S. proposes 56% vehicle emissions cut by 2032, requirin... by troutwine on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @12:44PM (#35542613)

> "Weight" is not the correct factor to optimize, basically.

Is it not? Particular matter from tires is a major factor in air pollution and the heavier the vehicle the more that ramps up.

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Re:U.S. proposes 56% vehicle emissions cut by 2032, requirin... by ajross on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @12:49PM (#35542682)

Absent numbers, I'm gonna go with "Mass-dependent increase in tire-derived particular air pollution" isn't the right factor to optimize either.

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Re:U.S. proposes 56% vehicle emissions cut by 2032, requirin... by calvinmorrison on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @12:52PM (#35542739)

Its not just tire pollution but road wear

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Re:U.S. proposes 56% vehicle emissions cut by 2032, requirin... by troutwine on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @01:49PM (#35543769)

Alright? It's not clear by implication what you actually do want to optimize for but the weight/particulate problem is a fairly well-known problem. For instance, from the California Air Resources Board: https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/brake-tire-wear-e...

It's something the tire industry has been fretting over for a while: https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/regulations...

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Re:U.S. proposes 56% vehicle emissions cut by 2032, requirin... by quadrifoliate on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @12:47PM (#35542662)

It should incentivize manufacturers to build a lot more Nissan Leafs (111 MPGe) and a lot fewer F-150 Lightnings (68 MPGe).

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Re:U.S. proposes 56% vehicle emissions cut by 2032, requirin... by ortusdux on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @12:53PM (#35542756)

I agree. For reference:

-Nissan leaf - 3500 to 3900 lbs

-Tesla model 3 long range - 4250 lbs (131mpge)

-F150 lightning - 6000 to 6900 lbs

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Re:U.S. proposes 56% vehicle emissions cut by 2032, requirin... by hannob on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @12:53PM (#35542750)

For safety, weight is not the only, but a very relevant factor to optimize for.

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Re:U.S. proposes 56% vehicle emissions cut by 2032, requirin... by ambicapter on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @12:55PM (#35542781)

What is the correct factor then?

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Re:U.S. proposes 56% vehicle emissions cut by 2032, requirin... by ajross on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @09:19PM (#35549573)

Fuel consumption? Net total particulate emissions? Net involved fatalities (regardless of fault)? It's not like this is hard. Those are the things people care about reducing.

At best, vehicle mass is a proxy measurement for those things. But the thing is, you use a proxy measurement when the things you're trying to measure are hard to measure. That stuff is easy!

Fundamentally my point is libertarian: If we want to regulate safety, we should regulate safety and not play dumb games with weight rules that then need to be tuned for EVs or whatnot. Fine-tuned rulemaking doesn't work.

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Re:U.S. proposes 56% vehicle emissions cut by 2032, requirin... by bryanmgreen on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @12:55PM (#35542785)

Correct - a "one-size fits all" solution would be foolish! But... This has been accounted for to not penalize EVs disproportionately :)

Hopefully battery tech can improve at a steady pace that there are in the near-ish future notable reductions in weight.

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Re:U.S. proposes 56% vehicle emissions cut by 2032, requirin... by zip1234 on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @12:57PM (#35542822)

Weight should certainly be part of the calculation. Road wear, momentum at speed, and particulate emissions (including from tires) all increase with weight.

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