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Re:Do judges give out tougher sentences when hungry? A study... by wpietri on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:33AM (#35494275)
Yeah, as somebody who has experimented with fasting, I think it's a huge mistake to think that Ramadan fasters would respond like hungry non-fasters.

Fasting is a common religious practice because it is both a challenge and a discipline. To get good at fasting, you have to work to unlearn habits of instant gratification and learn to consciously lean against the urgings of the body. A fasting practice develops real skills.

It's perfectly plausible to me that Ramadan-observing judges would better at judging while hungry while non-fasters would get worse. So this article's author is doing exactly what he criticizes: assuming his naive model is the only explanation.

Re:Do judges give out tougher sentences when hungry? A study... by nashashmi on Saturday April 08, 2023 @12:32PM (#35494942)
There is intermittent fasting research that has shown that fasting after a few days can end up decreasing sleep time and increase all-day energy. My own fasting experience shows this increase in energy and reduction in sleep as getting better and showing more energy in arguments. Some say this would be making me angrier but it isn't. It is making me more forceful at the argument.
Re:Do judges give out tougher sentences when hungry? A study... by jdkoeck on Sunday April 09, 2023 @03:03AM (#35500600)
Or, you’re getting cranky because you’re hungry.
Re:Do judges give out tougher sentences when hungry? A study... by zvmaz on Saturday April 08, 2023 @12:56PM (#35495208)
> It's perfectly plausible to me that Ramadan-observing judges would better at judging while hungry while non-fasters would get worse.

I don't know for judges, but I live in a dominantly religious society and I haven't noticed the virtues promised by observing strict religious fasting. In fact, people have been jailed by (probably fasting) judges for eating out of sight [1].

[1] https://www-lepoint-fr.translate.goog/monde/algerie-2-ans-de...

Re:Do judges give out tougher sentences when hungry? A study... by reitanqild on Saturday April 08, 2023 @02:20PM (#35496096)
If the laws says you should fast, it wouldn't be a virtue for a judge to not punish someone for breaking the law, unless the law gives the judges this liberty.

Now I am not saying I agree with this law, I am Christian and according to how I and those I live with practice it, fasting is strictly individual, something I personally would even try to hide according to Jesus words in Matthew 6. 16, 17 and particularly 18:

> «that thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.» ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6‬:‭18‬ ‭KJV‬‬ https://bible.com/bible/1/mat.6.18.KJV

Re:Do judges give out tougher sentences when hungry? A study... by LoveMortuus on Sunday April 09, 2023 @06:38AM (#35501451)
That quote is quite interesting. I went to see if it's any different in other versions is bible, but it's always pretty much the same.

Maybe expressing that you're fasting could be seen as bad. As if you're trying to boast about it, how you're better then others.

Which made me that, if people that eat a vegan diet (or similar) kept it to themselves and not force it onto others, then perhaps there wouldn't exist the culture of "I ate a steak in front of vegans" or "I don't mind if you're vegan, but please let me eat in peace".

Re:Do judges give out tougher sentences when hungry? A study... by reitanqild on Sunday April 09, 2023 @07:02AM (#35501557)
The first part Matthew 6, 1 - 21 has a lot more about doing what we do only with the expectation that God will see it, either it is alms, prayers or fast.

Each of these might have value on their own, but God will only reward us if we do it for him instead of doing it to seek the glory of men.

Re:Do judges give out tougher sentences when hungry? A study... by stametseater on Saturday April 08, 2023 @01:18PM (#35495456)
Don't Ramadan fasters only fast for a few hours a day (e.g. during daylight?) Do they ever reach the point where they've skipped enough meals to no longer be hungry? TBQH skipping meals during the day and eating one big meal after dark doesn't seem terribly unlike the lifestyle of many nerdy bachelors. I'm sure I've done that many times myself without even thinking about it.
Re:Do judges give out tougher sentences when hungry? A study... by wpietri on Saturday April 08, 2023 @02:05PM (#35495973)
Per this, Ramadan fasting is 13-15 hours per day: https://www.brandeis.edu/spiritual-life/resources/guide-to-o...

Since the non-fasting hours include a night of sleep, that schedule sounds pretty rigorous to me. Americans typically have an eating window of 12-15 hours, eating 5 times per day: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8705992/

Re:Do judges give out tougher sentences when hungry? A study... by AmericanChopper on Saturday April 08, 2023 @06:36PM (#35498323)
The Ramadan fast also includes not drinking any liquids, which many people find to be the most difficult part of the fast, especially considering the types of climate a majority of the Muslim population lives in. It also requires people to be awake during the day to do all their mandatory prayers, so the sleep during the day strategy wouldn’t really work. You basically have to get up for the pre-dawn meal, unless you want to wake up dehydrated from sleeping, and wait 10 or so hours to have your first glass of water. The fact that the dates of Ramadan move every year also means that you’re expected to experience the fasting during all of seasonally different lengths of day your location has (if you live in a place that has no sunset I believe the religiously permissible solution is to fast according to the schedule of Mecca).
Re:Do judges give out tougher sentences when hungry? A study... by Zetice on Saturday April 08, 2023 @02:40PM (#35496281)
I dunno about getting better, but yeah the dropoff would be less pronounced.
Re:Do judges give out tougher sentences when hungry? A study... by wpietri on Saturday April 08, 2023 @03:32PM (#35496751)
My theory for why it might go the other way: to get good at fasting, I had to get better at noticing and leaning against feelings that might throw off my judgement. Hunger was the feeling at issue, but I think it's at least partly transferable to other feelings.
Re:Do judges give out tougher sentences when hungry? A study... by MisterBastahrd on Saturday April 08, 2023 @04:53PM (#35497508)
Ramadan fasts aren't really much as far as fasts go. They last only during daylight hours and you can stuff yourself silly in the mean time.
Re:Do judges give out tougher sentences when hungry? A study... by fakedang on Saturday April 08, 2023 @06:34PM (#35498311)
I just attended an Iftar a while back. The amount of gluttonous eating, wastage of food and lack of hygiene in cleaning up the area after the Iftar was astounding.

It's of course no surprise then that most Muslim cities see the maximum amount of food wastage, and most Muslims the maximum weight gains during the month of Ramadan. Not to mention how overworking the ladies of the house in preparing the Iftar , while the men laze around, seems to be a common theme transcending across cultures. And I say these as a Muslim.

In my opinion, water fasts make more sense than silly daylight fasting. My stomach seems to agree with that too - Ramadan always seems to exacerbate my auto-immune condition.

Re:Do judges give out tougher sentences when hungry? A study... by Zuiii on Sunday April 09, 2023 @11:17PM (#35508834)
Gluttony and moderation depends on the local culture. I've personally witnessed iftars on both sides of the spectrum.