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Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by lp0_on_fire on Thursday April 06, 2023 @10:50AM (#35469075)
Thankfully, tankies are easy to spot.

"Solzhenitsyn was just a fiction writer and totally made it all up" "The purges in the Red Army and of political dissidents were just western propaganda" "Trotsky shot himself in the back of the head" etc.

Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by RedCondor on Thursday April 06, 2023 @10:53AM (#35469129)
Solzhenitsin's own wife said his book was "folklore," a set of horror stories for Westerners compiled out of the worst hearsay he ever heard about a poor country's prison system:

>Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn's controversial new book on Soviet prison‐camps was described as “folklore” by his former wife in an interview published here today. Natelya Reshetovskaya told the conservative newspaper Le Figaro that the book, “The Gulag Archipelago, 1918–1956,” was based on unreliable information: She also told the newspaper's Moscow correspondent that she was still living with Mr. Soizhenitsyn when he wrote the book and that she had typed part of it. They parted in 1970 and were subsequently divorced. She said: “The subject of ‘Gulag Archipelago,’ as I felt at the moment when he was writing it, is not in fact the life of the country and not even the life of the camps but the folklore of the camps.”

https://www.nytimes.com/1974/02/06/archives/solzhenitsyns-ex...

There were about as many people in Gulags at peak, war-with-Nazis paranoia than in America today.

>Yes. The overall numbers at present are broadly similar (2.2 million prisoners in the US at present, compared to 2.6 million at the peak of GULAG, though that was drawn from a smaller population), but US prisons have much lower death rates (especially compared to WWII-era GULAG — hopefully there will be no similar invasion of the US and so we will not have the opportunity to see if a wartime US massacres its prisoners in a similar fashion), and a smaller fraction of the prisoners are slave laborers (in GULAG it was nearly 100%).

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20532353

(Notice the second post is informed by the first--100% slave, etc. Ample evidence contradicts that.)

Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by scp_not_gpt on Thursday April 06, 2023 @11:06AM (#35469322)
The second source is a blue-ribbon journal grade, truly.
Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by RedCondor on Thursday April 06, 2023 @11:08AM (#35469356)
It's more than you've got.
Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by mopsi on Thursday April 06, 2023 @12:30PM (#35470773)
> Solzhenitsin's own wife said his book was "folklore,"

... in 1974, while living in the USSR.

On a 0-10 scale, how much freedom do you think she had to form an opinion and express that to a foreign journalist?

Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by RedCondor on Thursday April 06, 2023 @02:15PM (#35472200)
Whatever ranking you assign to her, she has less reason to lie than an antisemitic exile getting paid to lie by the American propaganda establishment.

If you like those horror stories check out the North Korean ones, they have oodles of stuff about people dying and reappearing, being shot out of cannons, eating human faeces, and whatever else the human imagination can come up with.

Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by mopsi on Thursday April 06, 2023 @02:54PM (#35472746)
It's not about her. Mid-1970s were the golden days of the KGB. All communication in and out of the USSR was under total KGB control. All foreigners in the USSR and the people they were in contact with were monitored around the clock. You couldn't get something as basic as a copy of the New York Times in the USSR nor send a personal letter out of the USSR without a government censor going over it with a sharpie blanking out every unsuitable word. If you stepped out of the line and did or said something that the KGB didn't approve of, then there was a scale of things that happened to you. The mildest form was social ostracism. Since there was no private enterprise in the USSR, all jobs in the USSR were government jobs. You were kicked to the lowest ranks, to jobs like street sweeper that barely provided sustenance. Since there was no private property either, your apartment was taken from you and you had to move in with your relatives (if you had any) or survive in a tiny damp room of a communal apartment, sharing kitchen and bathroom with total strangers. If you had kids, their lives were ruined too: couldn't get into good schools, career prospects were limited, and so forth. On the far end of the scale, people who even then kept annoying the KGB like many dissidents did, were locked up in mental hospitals and pumped full of drugs until they became vegetables or imprisoned in forced labor camps. The last forced labor camp was closed only in 1987 during Perestroika under Gorbachev's attempts to reform the rotten country.

Unlike North Korea, I was born in the USSR and saw all that with my own eyes, and I personally know several dissidents who were imprisoned in the 1980s. To suggest that she had any freedom of speech, particularly to a foreign journalist, is deeply ignorant of the conditions at the time. People were scared to openly talk even with their relatives from the West. In 1974, a foreign journalist heard only what the KGB wanted them to hear.

Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by RedCondor on Thursday April 06, 2023 @03:43PM (#35473373)
Look guy, the Archives were opened in the 90s, and literally none of the insane horror stories bore out.

Meanwhile, in that time, Solzhenitsyn was outed as a conspiratorial antisemite.

If you want to opt into a goofy American spy movie, be my guest, but your arbitrary choices of who is believable and who isn't are utterly unconvincing.

Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by mopsi on Thursday April 06, 2023 @03:55PM (#35473522)
That was the reality of daily life in the USSR in 1970s, not spy fiction. To anyone from the USSR, the first instinct is to check the date of that quote (pre- or post-1991?) and the rest needs no comments. You made a faux pas that revealed how little you are aware of historic context. The more you deny it, the deeper hole you dig yourself into.

As to the crimes themselves, they've been meticulously documented by human rights organizations like Memorial. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_(society)

Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by dang on Thursday April 06, 2023 @05:14PM (#35474557)
Please don't cross into flamewar and personal swipes. As far as I can tell, you've done a pretty good job avoiding that in this thread so far.

Edit: well, not entirely - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35469335 was bad. Please stay within the rules when commenting on HN.

Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by RedCondor on Thursday April 06, 2023 @10:48AM (#35469026)
The pro-Soviet view is that Katyn was done by the Nazis and blamed on the Soviets after the fact. I've never cared to investigate it in depth.

Mass deportations were a sad but not uncommon operation at the time, as seen for example by this Churchill speech from 1937:

>I do not admit that the dog in the manger has the final right to the manger, even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit, for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race, or, at any rate, a more worldly-wise race, to put it that way, has come in and taken their place. I do not admit it. I do not think the Red Indians had any right to say, “The American Continent belongs to us and we are not going to have any of these European settlers coming in here.” They had not the right, nor had they the power.

https://archive.org/details/winstonschurchil5pt3chur/

Or this one from 1944:

>Expulsion is the method which, so far as we have been able to see, will be the most satisfactory and lasting. There will be no mixture of populations to cause endless trouble, as has been the case in Alsace-Lorraine. A clean sweep will be made. I am not alarmed by the prospect of the disentanglement of populations, nor even by these large transferences, which are more possible in modern conditions than they ever were before.

https://archive.org/details/winstonschurchil0007unse/page/70...

The absurdity comes when they're used to try to conjure up a boogeyman.

Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by scp_not_gpt on Thursday April 06, 2023 @11:03AM (#35469270)
> Holodomor was invented to make a boogeyman of USSR

> Katyn was done by Nazis

> Gulags were not that bad

> Deportations were unfortunate, but look, someone did it too, therefore it's ok

> Molotov-Ribbentrop was a fake, whatabout [insert some unrelated nonsense]

> The rape of Berlin never happened

Nothing like the whiff of braindead and morally bankrupt ideology in the morning

Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by RedCondor on Thursday April 06, 2023 @11:07AM (#35469335)
This is just bargain-bin "spraying shit and seeing what sticks."

Some falsehoods, some distorsions, most of which are handled superbly by this book chapter on the Khrushchev Report: https://redsails.org/losurdo-on-the-secret-report/

Beevor is particularly vile with his rape-storytelling, and his stuff does not check out. See, "Hordes of Rapists: The Instrumentalization of Sexual Violence in German Cold War Anti-Communist Discourses": https://journals.openedition.org/rccsar/476

Seek truth from facts, brother.

Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by dang on Thursday April 06, 2023 @05:18PM (#35474618)
Please edit out swipes and avoid flamewar as the site guidelines ask: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

We have to ban accounts that keep breaking the rules.

Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by dang on Thursday April 06, 2023 @05:19PM (#35474628)
You've broken the site guidelines repeatedly in this thread. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:H. G. Wells interviewing J. V. Stalin (1934) by dang on Thursday April 06, 2023 @05:15PM (#35474575)
Please don't post ideological flamewar to HN, regardless of how wrong other people are or you feel they are. We've had to ask you this before.

Two acceptable options are (1) engage by posting substantively and thoughtfully; or (2) just walk away and remember the internet is already wrong about nearly everything.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html