I have been a wrestling fan for as long as I can remember. It is irritating to be in the middle of a show when someone walks in and feels the need to inform me that it is fake. They don't do that when I am watching a movie or television show. They don't even do it in other venues where it is a show such as monster truck jams. They only do it with wrestling (ok sometimes a moon landing documentary too).

Isn't that because wrestling producers have tried to maintain the illusion that it's "real?"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe

Without a doubt. This is the cause of the stream of people who feel the need to point out it's fake. They aren't "in on the joke" yet, or "don't get the joke", so of course they won't hesitate to point out the obvious, and it usually goes over for fans about as well as someone who feels compelled to explain a joke told by someone else does...

Not a fan myself but I long ago wrapped my head around the Kayfabe and why it's silly to point out it's fake. Its just another sub type of "soap opera", like comic books, daytime soaps and telenovelas ...

Soap opera's exactly the right comparison, especially the really long-running soaps. Same kind of weird surprises, reversals, storylines and callbacks and characters spanning literal decades, all that stuff. Shit, this last Wrestlemania featured a wrestler (who's the son of another wrestler) involved with a plot line elements of which date back to when he was six years old, and that kind of thing's somewhat common wrestling.

Lots of the drama and conflicts and stories could easily be lifted and put in an actual soap opera with minimal modification.

It's a soap opera with tons of crazy, live stunts.

No.

McMahon admitted publicly that wrestling was fake in 1989 to avoid taxes.

https://www.thesportster.com/wwe-vince-mcmahon-admitted-wres...

My wife and I are performing magicians and there is a surprising amount of overlap in the history of the two performance arts.

Wrestling came from circus and sideshow. Stage magic has also had a large presence there, historically. Both art forms have a history of keeping their "methods" secret.

It reminds me of the first Borat movie, where Sascha Baron Cohen - at the time relatively unknown outside of the UK - stayed in character during the promotion of the movie. People didn't know if this character was for real or if it was an actor playing a part. It was part of the "art" (I know it sounds weird to call Borat "art", I don't want to get into a pedantic argument about definitions ... let's just say that magic, film, pro wrestling ... all theatre).

Ethically, it's an interesting grey area and I think that each has different reasons for being protective of what going on behind the scenes. Every magician has learned the hard way that audiences usually react to finding out how a trick is done with disappointment and that's the real reason that methods are kept guarded. The line for me is that I will never pretend that what I am doing when in character is anything other than parlour tricks and illusions.

I think that pro wrestling and Kayfabe are similar. For a long time pro wrestling did want to protect the illusion. These days they are much more open about it being scripted and predetermined and, like magic, anyone that wants to learn how some of it is done can find out very easily online. But I think that they still don't want to advertise the techniques because, in their belief, it would ruin the suspension of disbelief.

Magic is actually the UNWILLING suspension of disbelief. Even if a trick is not framed as an intellectual puzzle, it takes an intelligent audience to experience the illusion. The person watching must have a clear understanding of what is possible vs what is not, and the magician needs to understand every possible explanation that might run through a typical rational human mind and work to preemptively disprove those explanations. It's a fun implied intellectual challenge.

I can find pro wrestling to be entertaining but I'm not a super-fan and so I don't know if the "unwilling suspension of disbelief" enters into the picture with Kayfabe at all .. but I can see how it can. If we were under the assumption that every move and stunt were without any risk then would it still be AS entertaining? The "moves" in pro wrestling do not eliminate risk but they definitely work to reduce it. And understanding the mechanics, like in magic, has the potential to break the illusion.

I think it would be better if people would say that it is scripted as it is certainly a very physical activity requiring quite a bit of athleticism even if the hits may not be as hard as if they were "real".

In fact I would compare wrestling to what stuntmen do. Scripted but very real in most ways.

> Scripted but very real in most ways.

Different era, but back in the 90s, guys like Ric Flair or Mick Foley were almost superhuman in terms of stamina or the bumps they were able to take and still continue.

It's been a while since I saw wrestling but I remember the Undertaker throwing Mick Foley off the top of I think a 12 foot high cage.

Which surprised even the Undertaker at the time... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS110ggmHIM

Shane McMahon did a similarly-nuts fall from a cage a few Wrestlemanias ago.

I’ve loved wrestling ever since I was a kid as well. I thought it was real until my dad pointed out that the a first person introduced always lost. That’s shattered my innocence but I started enjoying it more as I grew older because I could enjoy it as a joke/performance.

I watched it when it was called the WWF and stopped watching it just before it got renamed to the WWE so I’m less familiar with all the newer wrestlers from the last 20 years but I’ve seen the greats live, like Rick Flair. Being able to “woooooo!” with the entire arena was fun as hell even though we all know it wasn’t a real competitive event.

I haven't watched pro wrestling since I was a kid. I happened to be at a hotel across the street from a show. The talent and crew were at the same hotel. I was at the bar after the show ended. Everybody was so nice. I was a little mystified about what was happening, but I finally put it together.

Talent was very patient with fans, let pretty much everyone take pictures. Staff cared about fans, asking about their favorite part or listening to the odd complaint. Compared to say a kitchen crew getting off work and unwinding, the WWE folks were surprisingly wholesome. Everyone seemed nice and down to earth.

Non of those comments strike me as hostile. Looks like common casual talk. I was in the same boat, don't actually find WWE super entertaining, but respect the athletes. I do enjoy amateur wrestling and been to a lot of events.

All that Rogan said is not untrue.

Unlikely that rogan will be forced to commentate for both ufc and wwe events.

Pretty sure Rogan is free to do whatever he wants. I would worry about the quality of upcoming ufc fights, though. The fighters will have to spend more time promoting fights with WWE-style kayfabe, sacrificing actual training.

> The fighters will have to spend more time promoting fights with WWE-style kayfabe

This happens now. Colby doesn't have many recent wins but he's getting a title shot because he's provocative.

Colby represents a certain jingoism that will never get old.

Typical Joe Rogan to pop off at the mouth and then when he gets like 10 seconds of education he's suddenly contrite about it. Like dude has never heard of Wikipedia.

It is an actual athletic event. People come at pro wrestling from the wrong angle. It's a stuntman exhibition show.

And no one is going to say that it doesn't take athleticism to be a good stuntman. That it's not dangerous. The difference between the WWE and professional stuntmen is that the professional stuntmen have guidelines and rules about safety. The WWE, less so.

On a movie set, if you were going to dangle a person 100 ft in the air, then every possible landing surface would be covered in padding and foam. Then about 10 yards further out just in case. In the WWE, Owen Hart hits the concrete and dies live on Pay Per View. And then they continue the show.

These are real people, doing real stunts, with real danger. The only thing fake is the outcome of the match.

Pro wrestling is ballet. Simplest way to think about it.