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Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by muyuu on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:21AM (#35370961)
I don't think Twitter is alone in that respect.

Twitter is unique in that it was acquired for US$ 44B when it was a business that lost huge amounts of money consistently for years, and the owner intended it to have it run old school style, as in making a profit, but also doing so in such short notice that he dismantled entire branches of the company wholesale.

Obviously for people relying on pre-existing services and rates from Twitter, it sucks.

But the root problem is that Twitter had not been a sustainable business for a long, long time. One has to wonder how did they even subsist for so long and how much institutional money, not just VC/investor money, and who knows what sort of government/agencies pay-to-play deals made it even possible because the sort of money they cashed in during the only few years they've even been profitable seems absurdly high and they have never replicated that under normal circumstances.

With the ad model struggling and institutional ads sort of in retreat, the entire sector is struggling.

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by oxfordmale on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:28AM (#35371027)
Not sustainable?

Twitter generated $5 billion revenue in 2021, a 35% increase on 2020 figures and a significant improvement on the 8% and 13% increase the two years before.

Cut backs were needed, as advertising revenue would have been significantly down this year, given the economic down turn. However, there was no need to gut the company to make it profitable.

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by muyuu on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:35AM (#35371095)
twitter lost copious amounts of money even with unprecedented revenue (from institutional ads one would assume, as it had never happened to that degree before or since, and private ads were cheap in 2021)

https://i.imgur.com/Gea8HRr.png

clearly Twitter was way, way too fat when it managed to lose US$1B with record revenue

which I'm not saying it means you should just close down core branches of the service, of course

perhaps Musk wasn't ready for the amounts of money Twitter required to be made profitable under a reasonable timeline

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by oxfordmale on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:52AM (#35371213)
The problem for Musk was that he had to borrow a lot, and interest payments are now significant for Twitter.

Twitter could have easily be turned into a profitable business by cutting 15%, rather than 50% of staff.

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by wongarsu on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:32AM (#35371063)
If Elon hadn't bough it, maybe the Twitter would have been fine without significant restructuring. But now Twitter has to service a significant part of the debt created to buy the company, and thus has to generate more revenue.
Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by a4isms on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:38AM (#35374447)
Elon bough it because he wanted to branch out.
Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by sangnoir on Thursday March 30, 2023 @12:28PM (#35375278)
Elon bought Twitter because the Delaware courts are not the milquetoasts he's accustomed to (at the SEC)
Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by a4isms on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:32AM (#35386903)
I’m not as funny as I think I am:

The GP misspelt “bought” as “bough.” I thought a pun would be a fun way to point that out. I was wrong.

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by sangnoir on Friday March 31, 2023 @04:35PM (#35393251)
My eyes autocorrected to "bought" and I missed the joke entirely and went full-screed.

FYI: I chuckled a after reading your follow-up comment.

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by zpeti on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:31AM (#35371048)
> Cut backs were needed

I mean, you are both claiming cuts were needed and they’re too much. So how much was right? How do you know? You’d do a better job than the people who have access to the numbers? That’s a fairly arrogant position

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by oxfordmale on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:56AM (#35371256)
Most FAANGS have been cutting by 10 to 15%. That trims excess fat without gutting a company.

Twitter seems to have a serious cultural problem at the moment, and that is generally a lot harder to fix than to rehire when the growth curve inverses.

I am sure Musk had to cut by 50%, if only because Twitter's interest payments are now significant. However, that does bring significant challenges.

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by danaris on Thursday March 30, 2023 @08:58AM (#35371949)
Gee, it's almost like there are aspects of life where a single-minded absolutist position is going to be less effective than getting to know the actual situation and making an informed decision based on human judgement.
Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by rvz on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:56AM (#35371251)
> However, there was no need to gut the company to make it profitable.

There was a need and it was going to happen anyway. Clearly slashing headcount earlier even without Elon, would have easily made it even more profitable.

Their mistake was that they didn't do it earlier enough. It just took Elon to do it for them. 7K headcount wasn't sustainable regardless and a 50% - 60% cut in staff makes sense for Twitter.

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by dpkirchner on Thursday March 30, 2023 @12:42PM (#35375513)
But why would he bother? If the company was really in such bad shape, why not just let it fail and create a competing service (for a lot less than $44B)?

In any case, from my perspective Twitter didn't really make serious mistakes. They got $44B for the company despite its issues.

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by kulahan on Thursday March 30, 2023 @08:01PM (#35380557)
He didn't buy the service so much as he bought the users.
Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by rvz on Friday March 31, 2023 @03:42AM (#35383923)
> But why would he bother? If the company was really in such bad shape, why not just let it fail and create a competing service (for a lot less than $44B)?

The value in Twitter is its network effect, social inertia and integrations in hundreds of thousands of websites, blogs, apps and APIs with 220M+ daily active users still using it every day.

Recreating that from scratch makes absolutely no sense. There is no serious alternative to Twitter and it is better to buy it instead of building it all over again.

> In any case, from my perspective Twitter didn't really make serious mistakes.

Twitter clearly over-hired like the rest of the tech companies and was wasting millions a day. It is either the mounting costs would get them in the end or someone else would reverse that downward trend to insolvency.

Drastic action was the appropriate method to stem the losses.

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by codeulike on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:19AM (#35372234)
Revenue not the same thing as profit

Twitter has only made a profit in 2 out of the last 11 years

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=twitter+profits+per+yea...

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by brotoss on Thursday March 30, 2023 @12:12PM (#35375015)
Now do Amazon
Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by Drakim on Thursday March 30, 2023 @01:40PM (#35376433)
As far as I understand Amazon makes a deliberate choice to reinvest their profit into research, marketing, etc, with the promise that it will grow more in the future.

Musk has been very upfront that Twitter is bleeding money (hence why he is firing so many people), it's not simply that a healthy profit margin is being reinvested.

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by kulahan on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:59PM (#35380545)
Amazon has been profitable all years except 1 since its first profitable year, if I'm remembering correctly.
Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by dragontamer on Thursday March 30, 2023 @02:01PM (#35376697)
The Twitter Buyout is structured as a $13 Billion loan.

That means that Elon Musk's Twitter Buyout costs $1.3 Billion/year _ON TOP_ of all the other costs of Twitter.

If Twitter was "barely profitable" in 2021, they're now $Billion+ short / year. That has nothing to do with "old Twitter" decisions, and 100% to do with how Elon Musk structured the buyout.

Presumably, you're supposed to assume that Musk knows what he's doing and that he has a plan to make $1.3 Billion in profits (to break even on the loan) and then go beyond (to make profit on his $44 Billion investment). But... I'm honestly not seeing it.

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by nemothekid on Thursday March 30, 2023 @02:54PM (#35377348)
Your graph doesn't really counter the parent's point. The profit line was trending upwards 2020 was their most profitable year. It certainly looks like the business was becoming sustainable.
Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by codeulike on Thursday March 30, 2023 @03:42PM (#35377858)
It certainly looks like the business was becoming sustainable

The downturn in early 2022 hit them badly. They were losing money again when Elon bought them (one of the reasons he tried to pull out of the deal)

Admittedly the way he structured his buy out made it worse by adding more debt.

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by zpeti on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:25AM (#35370998)
Thank you, for a nuanced answer on this topic. Very rare these days.

You are also 100% correct. As revenues fell at snap just like twitter, and easy money has dried up at all VCs creating a completely different market environment. Just look at stocks of small cap tech companies too, which Twitter was.

The only extra nuance to add is that without fines Twitter was actually profitable before musk bought it, but in the current market environment it certainly wouldn’t be even without musks leadership.

But of course blaming musk is what gets upvotes.

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by Yoric on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:10AM (#35373861)
I suspect that if there was government/agencies money, it would show up as revenue. Possibly laundered through third-parties, but revenue nevertheless.
Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by guelo on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:55AM (#35374725)
It had survived for 15 years and there was no hint that it was going under.
Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by majani on Thursday March 30, 2023 @12:23PM (#35375198)
With 62% of public companies nowadays being in the same loss-making predicament[1], the bigger question is: how much of the US economy is being propped up by the goodwill of investors?

[1] https://www.consultantsmind.com/2018/03/04/choosing-stocks/

Re:The Twitter API is now effectively unmaintained by EarlKing on Thursday March 30, 2023 @01:32PM (#35376299)
I think you mean: How much of the US economy is employing Hollywood Accounting.[1]

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[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting