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Re:Salve Lucrum: The Existential Threat of Greed in US Healt... by DaveExeter on Monday March 27, 2023 @12:41AM (#35322908)
The problem is health insurance. If we got rid of health insurance, prices would necessarily drop to levels where patients could simply pay for health services.

That's how it used to work. I've seen invoices from the 50s where the cost to deliver a baby is $200. $100 for the doctor, $100 for the hospital.

With a 10x inflation adjustment, that's $2,000.

Re:Salve Lucrum: The Existential Threat of Greed in US Healt... by ngngngng on Monday March 27, 2023 @12:52AM (#35322964)
For added context, with really good insurance I've paid about $4000 for both of my children. That's just out of pocket cost, of course I pay very high premiums and my company covers a large portion of the cost themselves. Both of these births were very standard, no complications.

The profit margin there is insane.

Re:Salve Lucrum: The Existential Threat of Greed in US Healt... by worik on Monday March 27, 2023 @12:55AM (#35322980)
Really?

An operating theatre cost many thousands of dollars an hour to run, the pre and post care is also very expensive. You may never need them (I hope you do not) but if you do it would almost surely bankrupt you without either socialised medicine (yay - sort of - another story) or insurance.

Re:Salve Lucrum: The Existential Threat of Greed in US Healt... by runamok on Monday March 27, 2023 @02:18AM (#35323462)
Most other countries are around what he is talking about ($2.5k to $4k) whereas the US > $10k. https://www.insider.com/costs-giving-birth-around-the-world-...

Certainly when things go wrong it can get more costly but the US consistently costs 2 to 3x more for everything AND usually has worse health outcomes. US maternal mortality is an embarrassment: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2020... .

Re:Salve Lucrum: The Existential Threat of Greed in US Healt... by glass3 on Monday March 27, 2023 @02:18AM (#35323464)
The markets don't work if delivering a child leads to bankruptcy. Either people pay for unnecessary procedures or those procedures cost too much.
Re:Salve Lucrum: The Existential Threat of Greed in US Healt... by paxys on Monday March 27, 2023 @01:25AM (#35323150)
What happens if there are complications with the birth? What happens if you get cancer? Or need an emergency surgery? Have a congenital heart defect? Need even the most basic life saving medication? Need to drain fluid from your child's brain? I can assure you your $2000 isn't paying for all that.

Do you even know the ballpark of how much an MRI machine costs to operate? Yes healthcare was cheaper in the 50s, but this isn't the 50s.

Re:Salve Lucrum: The Existential Threat of Greed in US Healt... by georgemcbay on Monday March 27, 2023 @01:39AM (#35323232)
> If we got rid of health insurance, prices would necessarily drop to levels where patients could simply pay for health services.

Or they could keep prices high and "the poors" could just go die...?

Based on current events I wouldn't bet against that outcome.

The root problem with healthcare in the US in general (with lots of blame to go around for the insurance industry, the healthcare industry itself, politicians, etc) is that we treat it like a commodity with elastic demand when in many situations it isn't.

Re:Salve Lucrum: The Existential Threat of Greed in US Healt... by hikawaii on Monday March 27, 2023 @02:50AM (#35323616)
The right way to think about this is that right now, "health insurance" is a subscription service to Healthcare, and is treated like one.

The problem is that due to highly variable costs between people, everyone has to play games to try to sucker everyone else into paying their fair share, because if they don't, they don't get paid at all.

Reworking health insurance to be insurance would fix this. HSAs are a step towards this, but not enough of a step to start seeing consumers actually change behavior based on price.