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Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by Supermancho on Monday March 27, 2023 @12:39AM (#35322903)
I'm probably in the minority on HN, but I think this is a good thing. It should be a matter of course, in a democratic society. Free speech doesn't live solely in digital communication (universally owned by some company) any more than it does in the classified ads in a newspaper.
Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by worik on Monday March 27, 2023 @01:04AM (#35323024)
It would be world changing, the complete abolition of all privacy.

Little drones that followed everybody around, everywhere, broadcasting and storing every thing everybody does, or says, everywhere they go, and what they do.

No. I do not recommend it. But the thought experiment is interesting.

Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by atlgator on Monday March 27, 2023 @01:42AM (#35323246)
It's an opt-in scenario. People aren't forced to be politicians.
Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by fanagra32 on Monday March 27, 2023 @04:57AM (#35324435)
Politics already suffers heavily from not getting the best-of-the-best. Making it even less attractive to become a politician is unlikely to improve upon that.

In the totality of all politicians out there that you have an opinion about, which fraction of them do you like, in terms of thinking they are the right person for the job? Do you think this fraction would improve with that opt-in scenario implemented?

Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by hutzlibu on Monday March 27, 2023 @05:36AM (#35324649)
"Politics already suffers heavily from not getting the best-of-the-best"

It is repeated often, but is this really true?

Number 1 trait of a politician should be honesty and integrity in my opinion - and I don't think that you can increase that factor, just with throwing more money on them. Then you maybe just get more smart people, who are in it for the money and use their smarts and cunning to extract even more money. I think politicians should want that job, because they primarily feel the call to achieve something bigger.

So a adequate payrise is alright in my opinion, but I don't want the top managers who run a big compony for profit to also run states. As states are (or should not be) profit orientated, but to serve the greater good of its people.

Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by _trampeltier on Monday March 27, 2023 @06:38AM (#35324990)
If H. Clinton vs D. Trump or D. Trump vs J. Biden are the only choice for the most powerful politic job in the world .. I think they are really not the-best-of-the-best
Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by michaelmrose on Monday March 27, 2023 @09:34AM (#35326503)
This is a better argument for the American public making in general poor choices and political parties giving them the kind of people they are apt to vote for rather than paying insufficient salaries.
Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by atlgator on Monday March 27, 2023 @12:56PM (#35329097)
"Tail wagging the dog" argument.
Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by michaelmrose on Monday March 27, 2023 @01:28PM (#35329574)
There is no reason to believe that the factor dragging political quality into the gutter is insufficient salaries. The fact that the Republican party turned down higher caliber more capable candidates in favor of trump suggests that candidate quality is limited by voter choice not insufficient compensation.

These folks really are in fact deplorable and you need to appeal to at least a substantial minority of awful idiots to be elected president or if on team red most of them.

This is why every Republican president in half a century has been an embarrassment and every democratic relatively conservative because nothing else flies here and upping the ante won't help.

Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by fanagra32 on Monday March 27, 2023 @07:37AM (#35325357)
> It is repeated often, but is this really true?

If I look around at (a) politicians and (b) people I respect for traits needed in politicians, then those sets are not fully but largely disjoint.

> Number 1 trait of a politician should be honesty and integrity in my opinion

There are other necessary traits though. Empathy. Diplomacy. The ability to compromise. Keeping an eye on the big picture. Current processes don't always select for those traits and there are tons of BS-ers and populists out there while I see people with the desirable traits outside politics and not having any desire to get involved. Putting a camera over their head 24/7 is not going to improve that.

Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by johndunne on Monday March 27, 2023 @05:43AM (#35324685)
If we're not getting the best of the best, then this 'opt-in politicians must submit to the record so their paymasters can vet them' idea would protect us from the one's who take the job for the 'side perks'.
Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by anonyfox on Monday March 27, 2023 @08:00AM (#35325536)
we are FAR AWAY from that being a problem. An average Joe that isn't corrupted by money/lobbyists/... will make dramatically better decisions than any smartass that also tries to hide the corruption under the rug of meritocracy ("you don't understand, I am the expert!!11").

Decisions that are made in good faith from average people would be so much better than anything we experience today, its almost comically absurd. The decision-making process including all talks being recorded and publically available would also be a massive factor to restore trust in politics.

Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by antisthenes on Monday March 27, 2023 @09:25AM (#35326405)
> we are FAR AWAY from that being a problem. An average Joe that isn't corrupted by money/lobbyists/... will make dramatically better decisions than any smartass that also tries to hide the corruption under the rug of meritocracy

Citation needed. Actually, a lot of citations needed.

When's the last time you spoke to an "average Joe" ? The average joe can't even make the right decisions regarding their own life and health, and is probably struggling to keep their family together and make ends meet.

What in the world makes you think they are qualified to make decisions on behalf of millions of constituents? I would drop dead before I let someone like that be my voice in politics.

> Decisions that are made in good faith from average people would be so much better than anything we experience today, its almost comically absurd.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So far, none is provided.

Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by sidlls on Monday March 27, 2023 @07:39AM (#35325376)
Politicians aren't isolated: the people they interact with would be impacted, too.
Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by Supermancho on Monday March 27, 2023 @01:13AM (#35323081)
> It would be world changing, the complete abolition of all privacy.

> Little drones that followed everybody around, everywhere, broadcasting and storing every thing everybody does, or says, everywhere they go, and what they do.

That's an interesting 0-100% (eclipse all possible free speech possibilities!) imaginary scenario. I don't subscribe to it.

Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by tauwauwau on Monday March 27, 2023 @01:49AM (#35323296)
That is the premise of TV Show Omniscient, I found it interesting. They dont broadcast everything, but data is shared with appropriate authorities

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt11542920/

Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by lordnacho on Monday March 27, 2023 @09:23AM (#35326370)
I'm not sure privacy as a concept should be off limits. It wasn't always a thing, in fact it's fairly recent. However there's a fairly big leap from "you can't always expect privacy" to "drones recording your whole life".
Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by kwhitefoot on Monday March 27, 2023 @10:13AM (#35326909)
The thought experiment has been done at novel length by Stephen Baxter: The Light of Other Days, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Light_of_Other_Days

In the novel it is extremely disruptive, but perhaps that is what is needed.

Re:The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic s... by dreen on Monday March 27, 2023 @09:01AM (#35326139)
I'm with you. For the duration of you holding public office there should be no expectation of privacy.