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Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by hannob on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:29AM (#35290351)
It's a not so well guarded secret that the claims by many linux distributions that they support old systems with security fixes for many years are not really true. The number of security flaws constantly found and fixed is just too large to make this even remotely feasibile. This is just another instance of this.
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by xxpor on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:47AM (#35290659)
OTOH, a lot of customers probably aren't too worried about low severity, local attack vector bugs.
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by 77AA777 on Friday March 24, 2023 @11:50AM (#35290738)
Can confirm this is a very real problem with a long history. Quoting from a sort of Arch-specific security hardening page[1]:

> A common misconception about the Linux kernel is that it's secure, or that users can go a long time without worrying about security updates. Neither of these are even remotely true. New versions of Linux are released almost every week, often containing important security fixes among the other changes. These releases typically don't make explicit mention of which commits have security implications. As a result, many "stable" or "LTS" distributions don't know which commits should be backported to their old kernels, or even that something needs backporting at all. If the problem has a CVE assigned to it, maybe your distribution will pick it up. Maybe not. Even if a CVE exists, at least in the case of Ubuntu and Debian especially, users are often left with kernels full of known holes for months at a time. Red Hat and similar "enterprise" distros have the same problem and have been called out publicly about it on more than one occasion. Moreover, the Linux kernel security team doesn't request CVEs for any vulnerabilities, partly because there are just too many to track. Downstream's culture of trying to cherrypick security fixes in the name of stability does not work. Arch doesn't play the backporting game, instead opting to provide the newest stable kernels shortly after their upstream release.

[1]: https://vez.mrsk.me/linux-hardening.html (lots of linked sources in the actual paragraph there)

Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by kevin_thibedeau on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:41PM (#35291722)
Nothing prevents you from running the latest kernel. The kernel build scripts can even generate .deb and .rpm directly so it coexists nicely with the package manager, though even that isn't strictly necessary.
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by aaomidi on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:54PM (#35291934)
Other than the constant restarts necessary. It’s not that but it does get old fast.
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by calvinmorrison on Friday March 24, 2023 @02:03PM (#35293139)
kpatch has been around for like a decade from Red Hat, I think suse has something similar, ubuntu has a Livepatch service.
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by msh on Friday March 24, 2023 @02:44PM (#35293687)
Who cares about a few reboots? You can reboot a workstation overnight and if you have a single point of failure in your production system the reboot ain't the problem.
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by yjftsjthsd-h on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:47PM (#35294467)
> You can reboot a workstation overnight

That depends entirely on how well your state serializes to disk and restores. If nothing else, I occasionally make the mistake of getting a setup going that would just be a pain to recreate in terms of getting everything open again (too many windows open in a specific arrangement).

Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by hollerith on Friday March 24, 2023 @03:00PM (#35293889)
Nothing prevents you from running the latest kernel, but the project is introducing new bugs with security implications all the time even as it is eradicating old bugs, which is why one guide recommends an LTS kernel as the better of two bad options (the other option's being a stable kernel):

https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/guides/linux-harden...

Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by fooker on Friday March 24, 2023 @07:12PM (#35296922)
Newer bugs are get fixed faster and are less likely to be exploited compared to older bugs.
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by CoolGuySteve on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:13PM (#35294803)
Ubuntu LTS has a package called linux-hwe that backports the latest Ubuntu kernel to the last LTS release. I find it's a good compromise between maintaining a mainline kernel and using an ancient one. And since the hwe kernel is provided by Ubuntu and used in its release, it's been tested by thousands of users and updating it is a breeze.

My only complaint is that I wished it went back 2 LTS releases. For example, the current project I'm working on settled on 20.04 and there are no more new hwe kernels being released for it despite the rest of the userland receiving updates.

Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by archontes on Friday March 24, 2023 @04:40PM (#35295133)
Nothing other than breaking my graphics drivers. Who needs a monitor?
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by invalidator on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:04PM (#35295488)
A few years ago we couldn't upgrade the kernel because XFS had a regression. Our choices were: revert the XFS changes in the newer kernel; backport security fixes to the version we were already using.

We went with the latter because our minimal attack surface made it unlikely that we'd need to backport many fixes, but it was always looming.

Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by deafpolygon on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:40PM (#35291699)
This is one reason why I don't mainline a Linux desktop anymore. It's just too much sysadmin work to stay on top of it, in addition to all of the desktop issues.

When even the creator of the Linux kernel has a very lax approach to security, and so the culture of Linux is the same way - I consider it an issue.

Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by aaomidi on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:55PM (#35291949)
Is there any real reason you don’t auto update everything, especially the kernel as a desktop user?

This is one of the nice things about arch I guess. Super simple to run mainline.

Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by deafpolygon on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:03PM (#35292079)
Experience has taught me not to be the first to beta-test a new package update, and don't blindly update. I used to run Arch and have run into scenarios multiple times where I've been unable to boot into a desktop environment because of an update. They were recoverable issues, but still cost me time and motivation for that day.

That, and updates are just a constant stream - there is always a new package to update every single day.

And as a separate issue, but the quality of software has taken a sharp decline lately as we all start switching to flatpaks and snaps (a correlation, not causative). More and more software is Electron-based and the quality of the non-Electron based software has more or less tanked.

Not many hobby programmers are making desktop software anymore.

Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by est31 on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:24PM (#35292458)
You could try using Nix OS stable with "boot.kernelPackages = pkgs.linuxPackages_latest;". That way, you will get the latest kernel version and if there is an issue with you being unable to boot into a desktop environment, you can very easily roll back the update by rebooting and selecting an older generation in the boot manager's menu.
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by fpoling on Friday March 24, 2023 @02:44PM (#35293688)
I second that. On few occasions kernel update in Fedora on my Dell XPS from 2016 cannot boot. The last time it was an upstream regression that was not fixed for months. In the mean time a bad WiFi bug was discovered. I could in theory compiled my own kernel with a fix but without the boot regression, but I rather decided to use Debian. At least they do backport fixes
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by josefx on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:04PM (#35291018)
As far as I can tell IBM officially nuked CentOS long term support in the same step it killed Red Hat compatibility with 7 being the last supported version.

The replacement for CentOS seems to be Rockit Linux, which continues with tracking Red Hat packages like CentOS did in the past.

Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by dralley on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:41PM (#35291710)
That is not true.

CentOS Stream is just as "LTS" as Debian, Ubuntu, or OpenSUSE - supported for 5 years. That is admittedly not as generous as the 10 years CentOS provided previously (and what Alma / Rocky linux have promised to provide), but it's definitely still "long term".

Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by josefx on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:25PM (#35292465)
That is probably what I get for checking my assumptions against wikipedia. One of the tables on the CentOS page makes it looks as if only CentOS 7 is still supported. On a closer check the table may just be incomplete. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CentOS
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by dralley on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:59PM (#35293080)
Oof, that table is very wrong. Even the release date for 8-stream is wrong. Thanks for pointing this out.
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by anonymousiam on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:26PM (#35291434)
I always looked upon Scientific Linux as the CentOS replacement.

https://scientificlinux.org/

Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by scheme271 on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:42PM (#35291737)
Scientific Linux was killed in 2019 although security releases for SL 6 and 7 will probably continue as long as Centos 6 and 7 get them. I'd go with AlmaLinux or Rocky Linux if you want to something that's a free copy of RHEL 8 or 9
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by jaboutboul on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:48PM (#35292895)
CERN chose to move forward with AlmaLinux: https://linux.web.cern.ch/which/
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by chronogram on Friday March 24, 2023 @01:45PM (#35292840)
That's mostly replaced by Alma with the CERN repository: https://linux.web.cern.ch/which/
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by red-iron-pine on Friday March 24, 2023 @02:02PM (#35293116)
RockyLinux is by the guy who did CentOS, and seeks to follow it's principles.

Scientific Linux is no longer a thing, essentially; from wikipedia:

> In April 2019, it was announced that feature development for Scientific Linux would be discontinued, but that maintenance will continue to be provided for the 6.x and 7.x releases through the end of their life cycles. Fermilab and CERN will utilize CentOS Stream[4] and AlmaLinux[5] for their deployment of 8.x release instead.

Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by carlwgeorge on Monday March 27, 2023 @11:10PM (#35335414)
> RockyLinux is by the guy who did CentOS, and seeks to follow it's principles.

Not quite. Back in 2003, when folks were first coming up with the idea of creating a distro that matched RHEL as closely as possible, Greg Kurtzer (the Rocky founder) explicitly stated that he would be interested in helping host it, but that he was "totally not interested" in leading it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040909231336/http://www.caosit...

It wasn't until much later (~2019) that he started trying to retcon history by claiming he was the original CentOS founder.

Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by chasil on Friday March 24, 2023 @12:57PM (#35291978)
Rockit?

Oracle Linux 7 is guaranteed binary compatible with RHEL/CentOS 7, although there is only (a little over) a year of support left on the whole platform.

Scientific Linux was also on v7, but I thought there was some kind of ongoing apoptosis with this repackaged distro.

Neither Alma nor Rocky implemented v7. I thought that CentOS left that version untouched.

I wonder if the Oracle UEK has addressed these problems. If so, it would be a reason to run Oracle's kernel on CentOS, supported or not.

For those poeple who can tolerate neither these bugs nor Oracle's kernel, another option is ElRepo's "Kernel of Last Resort."

"We stress that we consider such kernels as a last resort..."

http://elrepo.org/tiki/kernel-ml

Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by snits on Friday March 24, 2023 @02:46PM (#35293715)
UEK can run into the same issue. It is just a picked upstream kernel with a bunch of stuff that Oracle cares about dropped on top of it, and managed by a much smaller team.
Re:Google discloses CentOS Linux kernel vulnerabilities citi... by chasil on Friday March 24, 2023 @05:34PM (#35295904)
It can run into the same issue, but they are all v5 kernels.

Rhel7 is running a v3 kernel; the UEK will have a lot less to do.

I will admit that they are with a few point releases on rhel9.

How many people maintain elrepo-ml?