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Re:Bard uses a Hacker News comment as single source to say t... by MBCook on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @10:51PM (#35256201)
> People expect searches for factual information to be inaccurate probably 1 in 10,000 times.

Do they? I saw someone recommend using ChatGPT to learn how something worked earlier today on HN. And there were replies that agreed.

A ton of people seem excited about AI search. Google is bad enough without it at this point. But to me it feels like those helper chatbots that appeared everywhere a few years ago, redux.

Sure they have a more realistic tone and can understand questions far better than basic pattern matching. But it still doesn’t work.

I switched to DuckDuckGo about 2 months ago. The results seem about 95% as good as Google for most things, without all the ads and nonsense.

I have a hard time seeing today’s AI, impressive as it is in many ways, making search results more accurate. If they wanted to do that I feel like Google has a ton of low hanging fruit to fix already instead of hasty “features” to try and not look “behind”.

Re:Bard uses a Hacker News comment as single source to say t... by pclmulqdq on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @10:54PM (#35256224)
I just want to point out that ChatGPT is not an AI search product. It is a little like a "rubber duck" in my usage, and that is pretty helpful, but not something you lean on for factual research. Some other people use it as a copywriter or editor, which is another good use.
Re:Bard uses a Hacker News comment as single source to say t... by MBCook on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @11:03PM (#35256286)
I agree. But I seem to keep seeing people trying to use it like a search engine or a Q&A site where you can just ask it whatever you want to know.

But it can’t do that.

It can do a lot of other things, useful or just fun. But it’s not a virtual professor that knows the correct answer to any question.

Re:Bard uses a Hacker News comment as single source to say t... by codefreakxff on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @11:27PM (#35256442)
In some areas it does a good job of giving me a better answer than me checking 5-10 random stack overflow and blog posts with different answers over 20 years...

But, it is completely incapable of saying "I don't know the answer to that" and will spew the wrong answer to anything. For fun I have arguments with ChatGPT that it is just making things up and it should just tell me "I don't know" and it will happily say "I'm sorry, you are right. Here is the right answer <insert made up fact>" and it will do so generating random garbage indefinitely.

The problem is that I can't trust it to provide facts any better than asking my bull-shitting co-worker who is convinced he is right about everything and when called out says "yeah, that's what I was saying, <insert contradictory thing>"

Re:Bard uses a Hacker News comment as single source to say t... by rippercushions on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @11:21PM (#35256402)
Try Kagi, the search quality is far superior to DDG. But you've got to pay for it :/
Re:Bard uses a Hacker News comment as single source to say t... by themitigating on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @11:03PM (#35256283)
How is Google bad for most situations? People say this so often here and make comparisons to the past. What is the issue?
Re:Bard uses a Hacker News comment as single source to say t... by MBCook on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @11:14PM (#35256362)
I remember when you would put a search in Google and it would just give you the answer. Almost psychically, the number one link would probably be what you wanted. Maybe number two.

Today, first of all, you have to be careful to ignore all the fake search results that are actually ads.

Then there’s the problem of spam sites. References to what you want from Pinterest, but no way to get to the original source. Copies of Stack Overflow answers (or whatever primary source) on some scam domain that steals content to show ads. But it ranks very close to the primary source. Gotta ignore that.

My new favorite is Google ignoring what I’m actually searching for. I can search for “objective-c library to do X without Y”.

Google will helpfully give me pages and pages of “swift library to do X”. That is a much more popular search, so clearly that’s what I meant. Forget Objective-C. Forget without Y. Just dozens of tutorials on the far easier/more popular thing I’m NOT doing.

At this point in many ways it’s worse than the old keyword-based search engine like HotBot. They at least tried to find what I asked for instead of guessing what I probably meant based on popularity.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s kind of amazing that I can search Google for “the female comedian who was in a movie with a dinosaur” and the first result is about Tammy and the T-Rex, a truly awful movie with Whoopi Goldberg.

But that’s offset by seemingly simple searches that go sideways for no discernible reason.

I want 2007 Google back.

Edit: and don’t forget the ways they bent the market. Why does every recipe have a 5+ paragraph story to go with it? Because without that Google penalizes the page for having “no content”. So now all recipe sites are terrible, because they have to be to get visitors.

Re:Bard uses a Hacker News comment as single source to say t... by chtitux on Wednesday March 22, 2023 @02:50AM (#35257659)
> I want 2007 Google back.

The SEO mess was indirectly caused by Google PageRank and other related optimizations.

Maybe we want 2007 Internet instead?

The AI world will inevitably lead to "content optimization", so the Chatbots that will be asked "questions about life" (as of Today, where people usually search on Google "I have fever/depression/a turbulent child/tomatoes in my fridge, what should I do?") will more frequently answer specific products.

Instead of promoting a single website (Current SEO strategy), content producer will be tempted to produce many texts on a great variety of sources, to reinforce the model on a specific subject.

Time will tell if in 2035, we will want 2023 ChatGPT.

Re:Bard uses a Hacker News comment as single source to say t... by MBCook on Wednesday March 22, 2023 @12:11PM (#35263258)
You’re right.

I meant something along the lines of “I want Google to be as effective today as 2007 Google was in its era.”

I know Google and especially their ads are responsible for a huge chunk of what I dislike about today’s Google and the web.

ChatGPT 2026 being trained (probably unknowingly) on the output of ChatGPT 2023 is going to be ‘fun’.

Re:Bard uses a Hacker News comment as single source to say t... by dpkirchner on Wednesday March 22, 2023 @05:47AM (#35258789)
> Don’t get me wrong, it’s kind of amazing that I can search Google for “the female comedian who was in a movie with a dinosaur” and the first result is about Tammy and the T-Rex, a truly awful movie with Whoopi Goldberg.

Google actually gets this one wrong. "Tammy/Tanny and the T-Rex" starred Denise Richards and Paul Walker. You're thinking of "Theodore Rex". Both were in fact truly awful, although I have a soft spot for the dinosaur making a phone call gag.

Re:Bard uses a Hacker News comment as single source to say t... by nerdponx on Tuesday March 21, 2023 @11:44PM (#35256555)
ChatGPT is fundamentally something like AI-assisted interactive Web search because it was trained on text from the Web.

In my opinion, "AI-assisted interactive Web search" absolutely a killer app for LLMs, and will be a huge step forward in our ability to quickly consume the huge amounts of information out there. The fact that it's a "chat" is useful only insofar as the chat history gets absorbed into the prompt, and it allows you to advance the search incrementally and iteratively using natural language queries.

The fact that the output is designed to feel "chatty" to some extent is immaterial. Chatbots, as you point out, are not a killer app, and fixating on the "chat" aspect as anything other than a means of interactivity is missing the point. People mostly don't want or care about simulating real human interactions in general. They just want more useful, more efficient interactions with their machine. Any perception of chattiness is best used in order to serve that goal, and should not in my opinion be a goal in and of itself.

That said, it's a shame that Ask.com isn't running this, otherwise we'd be able to call it Ask Jeeves 2.0. Now we have... Bing Chat? Poor Cortana!

Re:Bard uses a Hacker News comment as single source to say t... by vba616 on Wednesday March 22, 2023 @12:11AM (#35256744)
What does ChatGPT have to do with "AI-assisted interactive Web search"? Did they roll out something new?
Re:Bard uses a Hacker News comment as single source to say t... by dragonwriter on Wednesday March 22, 2023 @12:24AM (#35256813)
> What does ChatGPT have to do with “AI-assisted interactive Web search”? Did they roll out something new?

The GPT-4-powered Chatbot agent in Bing. But I think GP is pointing out that, since the models underlying ChatGPT (both GPT-3.5 and GPT-4) are trained on a wide corpus including substantial content from the public web, even when they aren’t integrated into something like the new Bing, they are inherently a kind of (potentially somewhat stale) AI web search on their own.

Re:Bard uses a Hacker News comment as single source to say t... by spullara on Wednesday March 22, 2023 @12:19AM (#35256787)
Bing is basically ChatGPT-4 with search retrieval integrated.
Re:Bard uses a Hacker News comment as single source to say t... by vba616 on Saturday March 25, 2023 @08:24PM (#35309145)
Bing has essentially stopped working for me, and I'm mad.

Mad because (pre ChatGPT) I had been getting better results for a little while than with Google, and also mad because I expect Google will soon screw up their search engine in the same way.

What I'm referring to is that popular queries suddenly seem to have a much larger "shadow" making it impossible to search for anything remotely similar.

This was already a degenerative disease degrading Google search, but what I assume is the AI infusion to Bing seems to have taken it to a new level.