I lived in the suburbs of a medium sized city. Everything was easily accessible by bike, but of course many people still preferred the convenience of a car. It took about 25 minutes from my apartment to the city center.

My wife grew up in the suburbs of an even smaller city. It took about 10 minutes to reach that city center by bike, but almost everybody drove because the road connecting the suburb to the city center feels very unsafe on a bike.

Two anecdotes, plenty of European cities aren't as fortunate, specially in southern countries.

Many cities are only city in name, and in practice more towns aspiring to be cities, specially in southern and eastern Europe.

Here is one anecdote, Portalegre might be a nice city, as Northen Alentejo capital in Portugal, yet those 20 km on average from the neighbouring villages aren't that nice to do on bycicle specially during Summertime with temperatures up to 45 degrees celsius. And if you're thinking about taking a bus, better save money for a taxi, unless you're willing to spend the whole day in the city, as there is only one bus into each direction connecting the neighbouring villages to the city.

I’ve cited plenty more cities. And could cite more still.

Besides, your statement was an absolute so the GP only needed one of example to disprove you yet gave you two.

Capital sized cities.

There are plenty of cities in Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, Croatia,... where it doesn't hold.

You know, those that people from the cities you listed love to rent cars for their vacations, and enjoy what many locals can't afford.

How can they rent cars when they don’t have a driving license?

And no, they weren’t all capital sized cities.

I also don’t understand what vacationing has to do with anything when I was talking about expats.

Many do, even if they don't drive at home.

Plenty, it shows not wanting to endure the actual pain locals have with local transport system, if one exists at all.

> Many do, even if they don't drive at home.

But this conversation is about people who don’t drive. Not people who do.

You’ve warped the discussion so far off it’s original topic that your entire premise here is now just one stupid straw man argument.

To get back on topic: nobody is disputing that there are people out there with driving licenses (well durrr!). It was to explain why some people (ie not all) are content without learning to drive.

Depends on the city but generally what you’ve described is completely untrue. Usually European cities try to pedestrianise their centre as much as they can and have all sorts of public transport schemes from Park and Ride to underground rail services.

I live miles out of from London and get the train in. Almost nobody I work with live in the city and none of them drive in. In fact you wouldnt want to drive in London.

This has been true for so many European cities, Cambridge, Chelmsford, York, Amsterdam, Paris, Berlin, etc. all are very accessible for non-car owners.

Anyone who claims you need a car to live in a European city is someone who hasn’t experienced many European cities ;)

Yeah, I guess I need to throw away my passport.

It is no accident you only listed capital sized cities.

The first three, so literally half that list, are relatively small cities. Certainly not “capital sized”.

I’ve noticed this trend you have of defining things in absolute terms despite the evidence being transparently not. Which I normally make an effort not to reply to your silly comments however on this occasion didn’t check who the commenter was before responding. Which is basically a longwinded way of saying I’m not going to continue on with this absurd exchange any further.

Maybe you should actually try to live in a "city" in southern Europe.

Just don't pick Lisbon, Porto, Madrid, Barcelona, Rom, Napel, Milano, Athens, Zagreb for the actual experience.

Here is a suggestion, country side in the middle of the country, or one of the Mediterrean or Atlantic island.

I live in the countryside now. I’m not oblivious to the benefits of driving. What I’m doing is providing counter arguments to the ridiculous absolutes you’re coming out with. Comments like “only” are simply bullshit.

But I suspect that’s intentional behaviour. You don’t want people to agree, you are actively seeking out an argument. Because if you wanted a sensible discussion you’d see that our two points were complimentary rather than contradictory.