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Re:'The People's Hospital' treats uninsured and undocumented by maxerickson on Friday March 17, 2023 @09:40AM (#35196919)
At a societal level, it isn't that ridiculous to look at worse outcomes as a cost.

Like only counting dollars is a bad way to run a society.

Re:'The People's Hospital' treats uninsured and undocumented by rayiner on Friday March 17, 2023 @09:59AM (#35197151)
It is because it’s not a cost of the policy, it’s a benefit. You can reframe any benefit of a policy as the “cost” of not doing the policy. In practice it’s just a right-brain advocacy-speak way to double count the benefit in the equation: “people will be healthier, and it will reduce costs.” That’s not a good way for intelligent people to communicate.
Re:'The People's Hospital' treats uninsured and undocumented by carapace on Friday March 17, 2023 @10:12AM (#35197341)
I dunno, it sounds to me a little bit like the concept of "opportunity costs"?
Re:'The People's Hospital' treats uninsured and undocumented by s1artibartfast on Friday March 17, 2023 @10:28AM (#35197574)
It is like saying you will have the savings of being healthy plus avoid the costs of being sick.

How would you show that on your balance sheet?

Re:'The People's Hospital' treats uninsured and undocumented by gruez on Friday March 17, 2023 @10:23AM (#35197496)
That's a real thing, but counting the benefits and the opportunity cost of not doing it is still double counting
Re:'The People's Hospital' treats uninsured and undocumented by lostlogin on Friday March 17, 2023 @10:10AM (#35197303)
> Like only counting dollars is a bad way to run a society.

Absolutely. But one measure everyone understands is money, and you can convert a lot of situations into money. Poor health = missed work, missed rent payments, drugs needed etc. It’s not a nice measure, but it works.

Re:'The People's Hospital' treats uninsured and undocumented by uoaei on Friday March 17, 2023 @12:18PM (#35199109)
I think one of the points of this entire thread has been to make it clear that "it works" only applies to people who have money, which means of course that it doesn't work.
Re:'The People's Hospital' treats uninsured and undocumented by lostlogin on Friday March 17, 2023 @12:52PM (#35199630)
I live in New Zealand, and we have a healthcare system that’s free to use (YMMV). It’s creaking, but the situation in the US really doesn’t seem to suit anyone, nor even the rich.
Re:'The People's Hospital' treats uninsured and undocumented by polygotdomain on Friday March 17, 2023 @01:41PM (#35200283)
New Zealand is incredibly beautiful, I just wish I could go back. The US healthcare system suits the rich quite well. The companies that the rich people work for tend to offer significantly better plans that cover a lot of what you hear a bunch of people complain about. High earners and C-suite execs typically get offered a different plan then the rest of the proletariat do. They can cover the out of pocket costs just fine, and cover the elective procedures themselves. They generally have access to better doctors as well just based on location, flexibility with working hours, plans that will pay for them, and/or it being easier to handle the out of pocket costs.

Universal healthcare actually means a downgrade in the experience for these people, which is one of the reasons why they don't want it. Yea, they might want to make sure that people don't get sent to the poor house just because they came down with some random disease, but god forbid they have to wait their turn behind some plebe in the doctors office.

Re:'The People's Hospital' treats uninsured and undocumented by lostlogin on Friday March 17, 2023 @03:05PM (#35201449)
> Universal healthcare actually means a downgrade in the experience for these people

But it also means a much higher cost. I know these people are wealthy, but they are getting fleeced. Many (all?) socialised systems also have a private system along side, so the wealthy can avoid the great unwashed.

Re:'The People's Hospital' treats uninsured and undocumented by tptacek on Friday March 17, 2023 @10:49AM (#35197832)
That's as may be, but you can't just change the common definitions of terms to win the argument.
Re:'The People's Hospital' treats uninsured and undocumented by maxerickson on Friday March 17, 2023 @04:03PM (#35202146)
I suppose if I had written a longer comment I might have gone on about how lots of times advocates choose bad positions (so like here, the trope is trying to argue that preventative care reduces medical costs when there's a better position arguing that the benefits of preventative care outweigh the costs).

It's not really very interesting to discuss the bad position at any length, except maybe as a launching point into some more interesting adjacent discussion.

Re:'The People's Hospital' treats uninsured and undocumented by DoreenMichele on Friday March 17, 2023 @08:12PM (#35204614)
so like here, the trope is trying to argue that preventative care reduces medical costs

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. Everyone arguing against me is trying to claim that and then say it's a dumb position.

Try arguing with my actual point in the future.

I'll grant you I could have stated it more clearly. My bad. I also clarified, yet this assertion lives on.

Whatever.