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Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by SkyMarshal on Thursday March 16, 2023 @01:59PM (#35185690)
They didn’t even pile on the risk, at least not in the 2007/2008 sense. They bought long-dated 10yr US Treasuries (or was it MBS’s? I’ve heard both), since that was one of the lowest risk assets they could invest in and still get enough spread vs their deposits to remain a viable business. It’s strange days when that is considered piling on risk.

While there wasn’t counterparty risk with those assets, there was duration risk. And their mistake seems to have been not selling those the instant the Fed publicly committed to killing inflation with higher interest rates. It should have been clear to them that their exposure to duration risk was rising, and they needed to restructure back in 2021 or early 2022 to mitigate that.

Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by lordfrito on Thursday March 16, 2023 @02:40PM (#35186380)
It's been reported [1] (no paywall [2]) that executives were aware of the risk and continued to purchase higher yielding assets in spite of internal protests.

The actions are borderline criminal. To avoid a $36M hit they literally bet the bank. This was a step beyond regular incompetent mismanagement.

From the article:

     In late 2020, the firm’s asset-liability committee received an internal recommendation to buy shorter-term bonds as more deposits flowed in, according to documents viewed by Bloomberg. That shift would reduce the risk of sizable losses if interest rates quickly rose. But it would have a cost: an estimated $18 million reduction in earnings, with a $36 million hit going forward from there. 

     Executives balked. Instead, the company continued to plow cash into higher-yielding assets. That helped profit jump 52% to a record in 2021 and helped the firm’s valuation soar past $40 billion. But as rates soared in 2022, the firm racked up more than $16 billion of unrealized losses on its bond holdings. 

     Throughout last year, some employees pleaded to reposition the company’s balance sheet into shorter duration bonds. The asks were repeatedly rejected, according to a person familiar with the conversations. The firm did start to put on some hedges and sell assets late last year, but the moves proved too late.
[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-13/svb-failu...

[2] https://archive.is/HqVWn

Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by digitaltrees on Thursday March 16, 2023 @05:04PM (#35188600)
Thank you for posting. This actually changes my view entirely and makes many of my other posts invalid.
Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by lordfrito on Thursday March 16, 2023 @05:38PM (#35189071)
Yeah I feel this point isn't well known, but likely will be soon.

I love HN because many of us actually listen to each other and debate in good faith, helping each other sharpen our views.

Glad you found it helpful.

Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by SkyMarshal on Thursday March 16, 2023 @07:03PM (#35190164)
Yes, same here, thanks. It’s crazy they were so forewarned and yet did nothing, even having lived through the GFC and knowing how quickly things can go sideways. Just 15yrs and they already forgot, /smh.
Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by digitaltrees on Friday March 17, 2023 @02:23AM (#35193860)
I went back and edited a few of my posts specifically mentioning your post and the article you cited to clarify the record of discussion.

I agree that it is important to argue I good faith and help each other sharpen our views. Thank you for providing an important resource in the discussion.

While I still feel the instinct for vengeance or rage at SVB is counterproductive given that you showed evidence that the leadership of SVB knowingly, willfully, and with reckless disregard for the consequences, decided to invest in more long term securities than they were advised by their own team does justify some of that instinct.

That being said I still feel the system worked as expected. I think, given human nature as on display with SVB, the regulatory environment should go back to the stronger standard but I also think getting bank failures to 0 isn’t a laudable goal. Some failures will happen and as long as we eliminate the motivation for a run on the bank the system should allow for a degree of risk and failure.

Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by lackbeard on Thursday March 16, 2023 @02:26PM (#35186143)
It's well known that long-dated treasuries are highly volatile. I think the lesson we've all learned here is that they didn't have a viable business. It seems like they were offering a product that was not profitable given their competition and reasonable risk management.
Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by tptacek on Thursday March 16, 2023 @02:28PM (#35186194)
They're volatile if you trade them, right? But they're not volatile in the sense that there's uncertainty that they'll pay back. Do banks normally actively trade their long-dated bonds?
Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by basseq on Thursday March 16, 2023 @02:40PM (#35186370)
No, and that's the point. I understand that banks mark long-term bonds as hold-to-maturity (and only then can list them at par on their balance sheet). Otherwise, they have to mark them to market, and _any sales_ of HTM bonds flip the entire tranche over to MTM.

So part of the problem is that SVB had a reasonable-looking balance sheet of HTM bonds, then had to sell some at market, which flipped their entire portfolio to MTM and destroyed their balance sheet.

Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by landemva on Thursday March 16, 2023 @05:08PM (#35188661)
To allow the bond sale before they had a cash infusion basically flushed the business. I wonder if board of directors had an understanding of how it would detonate the balance sheet. After that, the regulators took the obvious necessary action.
Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by UncleEntity on Thursday March 16, 2023 @05:18PM (#35188808)
And people saw this is what they were doing and were tweeting about it in advance of all their “problems”.
Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by basseq on Friday March 17, 2023 @12:27PM (#35199235)
Sure, though in all fairness, I understand it's standard GAAP accounting for all banks, and your balance sheet has to have a footnote explaining the market value as well. I.e., this particular play or accounting standard is extremely common.

It seems like SVB was perhaps a little more exposed to interest rate risk than others, and had a pool of depositors that were more likely to withdraw significant funds in lockstep.

Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by lackbeard on Thursday March 16, 2023 @02:33PM (#35186283)
I guess that's what you normally do when you're overweighted that asset class and you must cover withdrawals!
Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by kasey_junk on Thursday March 16, 2023 @02:09PM (#35185845)
Their a&l committee told them to change their asset mix in 2020 and they didn’t to preserve their profits[0].

All bank risk assessment regimes measure both credit and interest rate risk. Measuring 1 in isolation is idiotic for now obvious reasons.

[0] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-13/svb-failu...

Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by jjoonathan on Thursday March 16, 2023 @02:12PM (#35185904)
2008 is an extremely low bar. They still piled on risk.

> that was one of the lowest risk assets they could invest in and still get enough

Was it? They had enormous deposit inflows and were struggling to scale, so their costs should have been undersized by default. They really ought to have been able to survive off the pennies that weren't in front of the steamroller.

Re:How deep is the rot in America’s banking industry? by jandrese on Thursday March 16, 2023 @02:08PM (#35185827)
The rumor I read is that SVB booked those treasuries in some weird way that prevented them from being sold but also prevented them from having to pay taxes on the treasures.

Otherwise you are totally right that it should have been no problem to cover the shortfall by selling off some of the treasuries, even though they would have had to take a haircut on them thanks to the Fed jacking the rates so fast.