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Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by mihaaly on Thursday March 16, 2023 @12:04PM (#35183793)
It is also impressive how slow they deliver the option of ungrouping taskbar icons, which is requested by masses for years now, and actually worked before. I know, I know, that is a much harder poblem than AI. Maybe they need to improve AI much more first so it could have superhuman powers, solving the task bar ungrouping problem finally for the humanity.
Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by mynameisvlad on Thursday March 16, 2023 @12:08PM (#35183850)
Maybe it's not actually being requested by masses and instead just a vocal minority that you happen to be a part of? Or maybe Microsoft already calculated that fixing it won't bring much if any more money than not and therefore that it's not worth it.

Just because something that you want fixed isn't done does not mean they're "slow". If it hasn't been included after years of being "requested by masses", then it's more likely it just won't be included period.

Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by mihaaly on Thursday March 16, 2023 @12:26PM (#35184202)
There is even a paid app doing that now! Beyond free ones. That's how rare problem is this. :D You actually meet with it daily, hourly if using two or more windows by the same app.

Just because you are a hobbist user and never met a productivity problem it doesn't mean that the professional population does not suffer from it (see, I can make unfunded assumptions too about the other end ;) ). All around me have this problem, with various level of seriousity. Google the problem, like I did for prolonged time searching for a good answer, it will bring up masses of troubled people.

> maybe Microsoft already calculated that fixing it won't bring much if any more money than not and therefore that it's not worth it

Can you also have an educated deliberation about the calculations justified the removal of this feature existed before? ;)

Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by mynameisvlad on Thursday March 16, 2023 @12:57PM (#35184725)
> There is even a paid app doing that now

Does that somehow change prioritization? If anything, it would lower the priority because there's a workaround people can use.

> All around me have this problem, with various level of seriousity. Google the problem, like I did for prolonged time searching for a good answer, it will bring up masses of troubled people.

If it was as large of a problem as you claim, with as wide an impacted userbase, it would have already been fixed. Yet here we are.

All you've proven is that there is a vocal minority. Which I already said.

At the scale of Microsoft and Windows (1.4 billion active users), for every person complaining about a specific problem, there are literally millions of users who aren't. Just because it is a problem for you does not mean it's automatically a big enough problem to address. If it isn't going to actively lose users (which it clearly isn't, considering people wrote apps to stay on Windows and have this behavior), then it isn't worth it.

> Can you also have an educated deliberation about the calculations justified the removal of this feature existed before? ;)

I'm not a seer, but it's plainly obvious from a software prioritization standpoint. The taskbar was rewritten and the feature was not justified as being important enough to keep. Wow, such deep, so insight.

Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by miles on Thursday March 16, 2023 @01:54PM (#35185576)
>> There is even a paid app doing that now

> If anything, it would lower the priority because there's a workaround people can use.

Until this happens:

Windows 11 update breaks PCs that dare sport a custom UI https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/01/microsoft_windows_11_... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34999885

Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by mynameisvlad on Thursday March 16, 2023 @03:35PM (#35187173)
Ok? I'm not sure how that changes the point.

Things break, the app developers fix it, and then they work again. I don't think there's an expectation anywhere that third party apps will work forever, from the standpoint of anyone involved.

But a viable workaround for users even if it isn't first party will change prioritization when looking at a feature.

Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by vitorgrs on Thursday March 16, 2023 @06:15PM (#35189575)
Is not just a removal, you know right? They rewrote taskbar entirely. It's actually coming soon the feature :)
Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by MikusR on Friday March 17, 2023 @08:30AM (#35196212)
Insider versions have started to show that work on ungrouping is being done https://twitter.com/XenoPanther/status/1633649557652250631
Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by warning26 on Thursday March 16, 2023 @12:12PM (#35183934)
I don't like a lot of things about the direction that Microsoft has taken Windows's UX, but this is absolutely an edge case that only a tiny % of users care about, and certainly not "masses" of anyone.
Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by mihaaly on Thursday March 16, 2023 @12:16PM (#35184034)
Google: windows ungroup taskbar icons

There is even a paid app for that (beyond free ones)! : D

Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by Pxtl on Thursday March 16, 2023 @12:16PM (#35184032)
MS has such a huge userbase that I'd wager any GUI feature that's accessible from the desktop has "masses" of users.
Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by mynameisvlad on Thursday March 16, 2023 @12:18PM (#35184063)
That just means "masses" as a concept gets diluted.

It might be "masses" to a single outside observer, but a drop in the bucket to someone that has a picture of how big that mass truly is compared to the rest of the userbase.

Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by RajT88 on Friday March 17, 2023 @11:32AM (#35198391)
There are on the order of Billions of Windows devices out there.

When you make a change like this where there is no configurable option to go back to the old style of working you cause issues for tens of millions of people who developed a workflow that depended on that.

There have been dozens of little things like this. Some got fixed in Win11 eventually (so they were obviously bugs). My example: in Windows Explorer you can start typing the name of a file and as long as you keep a quick pace, you will end up with that file highlighted. When Win11 shipped, it stopped matching at the first letter.

Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by Pxtl on Thursday March 16, 2023 @12:16PM (#35184014)
Different teams have very different processes. The AI/Bing group is obviously much more "move fast and break things" than the OS group.
Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by winphone1974 on Thursday March 16, 2023 @12:39PM (#35184439)
This is a really good thing, right?
Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by Pxtl on Thursday March 16, 2023 @01:39PM (#35185334)
Well, it does mean there are some MS products where I know not to trust the software out of those teams to upgrade cleanly... if ever.
Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by Amezarak on Thursday March 16, 2023 @01:02PM (#35184798)
I'm sure the issue there is designers believing they know better than power users how things should work, leading to the gradual evolution of software that is usable only by the lowest common denominator.

This happens to a lot of projects, it's a shame it's infested MS.

Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by xen2xen1 on Thursday March 16, 2023 @02:00PM (#35185699)
No it's not. They obviously just decided not to do it.
Re:Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work by KyeRussell on Thursday March 16, 2023 @03:49PM (#35187382)
Microsoft doesn’t lose points for not prioritising your personal workflow gripes as a power-user. Honestly anyone that prioritised working on this based purely on what you’ve described would NOT be a good product owner.