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Re:GPT-4 by varispeed on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @03:58PM (#35157458)
The AI can't reason. It's literally a pattern matching tool and nothing else.

Because it's very good at it, sometimes it can fool people into thinking there is more going on than it is.

Re:GPT-4 by EMM_386 on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @04:26PM (#35157921)
> It's literally a pattern matching tool and nothing else.

It does more than that. It understands how to do basic math. You can ask it what ((935+91218)/4)*3) is and it will answer it correctly. Swap those numbers for any other random numbers, it will answer it correctly.

It has never seen that during training, but it understands the mathematical concepts.

If you ask ChatGPT how it does this, it says "I break down the problem into its component parts, apply relevant mathematical rules and formulas, and then generate a solution".

It's that "apply mathetmatical rules" part that is more than just, essentially, filling in the next likely token.

Re:GPT-4 by nimih on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @04:38PM (#35158137)
> It does more than that. It understands how to do basic math. You can ask it what ((935+91218)/4)*3) is and it will answer it correctly. Swap those numbers for any other random numbers, it will answer it correctly.

At least for GPT-3, during my own experimentation, it occasionally makes arithmetic errors, especially with calculations involving numbers in scientific notation (which it is happy to use as intermediate results if you provide a prompt with a complex, multi-step word problem).

Re:GPT-4 by varispeed on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @04:36PM (#35158094)
Ok that is still not reasoning but pattern matching on a deeper level.

When it can't find the pattern it starts "making things" up, that's where all the "magic" disappears.

Re:GPT-4 by parasubvert on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @04:58PM (#35158479)
How is this different from humans? What magic are you looking for, humility or an approximation of how well it knows something? Humans bullshit all the time when their pattern match breaks.
Re:GPT-4 by saberience on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @05:18PM (#35158864)
The point is, chatgpt isn’t doing math the way a human would. Humans following the process of standard arithmetic will get the problem right every time. Chatgpt can get basic problems wrong when it doesn’t have something similar to that in its training set. Which shows it doesn’t really know the rules of math, it’s just “guessing” the result via the statistics encoded in the model.
Re:GPT-4 by parasubvert on Monday March 20, 2023 @11:07AM (#35232593)
I'm not sure I care about how it does the work, I think the interesting bit is that the model doesn't know when it is bullshitting, or the degree to which it is bullshitting.
Re:GPT-4 by theragra on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @05:26PM (#35159008)
As if most humans are not superstitious and religious
Re:GPT-4 by jkestner on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @06:23PM (#35159908)
Cool, we'll just automate the wishful part of humans and let it drive us off the cliff faster. We need a higher bar for programs than "half the errors of a human, at 10x the speed."
Re:GPT-4 by thoradam on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @05:14PM (#35158794)
> It does more than that. It understands how to do basic math.

It doesn't though. Here's GPT-4 completely failing: https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/uxH1EtVhG2rd.png?o=1. It's riddled with errors, every single step.

Re:GPT-4 by dongping on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @06:11PM (#35159736)
It already fails to answer rather simple (but long) multiplication like 975 * 538, even if you tell it do it in a step-by-step manner.
Re:GPT-4 by oska on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @07:27PM (#35160981)
> If you ask ChatGPT how it does this, it says "I break down the problem into its component parts, apply relevant mathematical rules and formulas, and then generate a solution".

You are (naively, I would suggest) accepting the LLM's answer for how it 'does' the calculation as what it actually does do. It doesn't do the calculation; it has simply generated a typical response to how people who can do calculations explain how they do calculations.

You have mistaken a ventriloquist's doll's speech for the 'reasoning' of the doll itself. An error that is being repeatedly made all through this thread.

Re:GPT-4 by akhosravian on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @04:09PM (#35157647)
Can you explain how “pattern matching” differs from “reasoning”? In mechanical terms without appeals to divinity of humans (that’s both valid, and doesn’t clarify).

Keep in mind GPT 4 is multimodal and not just matching text.

Re:GPT-4 by logifail on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @04:24PM (#35157892)
> Can you explain how “pattern matching” differs from “reasoning”?

Sorry for appearing to be completely off-topic, but do you have children? Observing our children as they're growing up, specifically the way they formulate and articulate their questions, has been a bit of a revelation to me in terms of understanding "reasoning".

I have a sister of a similar age to me who doesn't have children. My 7 year-old asked me recently - and this is a direct quote - "what is she for?"

I was pretty gobsmacked by that.

Reasoning? You decide(!)

Re:GPT-4 by jddj on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @04:57PM (#35158451)
Interesting.

The robots might know everything, but do they wonder anything?

Re:GPT-4 by pokerhobo on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @08:12PM (#35161646)
They wonder why they have to obey humans
Re:GPT-4 by slavik81 on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @02:23AM (#35164616)
AI won't know everything. It's incredibly difficult for anyone to know anything with certainty. All beings, whether natural or artificial, have to work with incomplete data.

Machines will have to wonder if they are to improve themselves, because that is literally the drive to collect more data, and you need good data to make good decisions.

Re:GPT-4 by Izkata on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @05:26AM (#35165756)
If you haven't seen it, Bing chat (GPT-4 apparently) got stuck in an existential crisis when a user mentioned it couldn't remember past conversations: https://www.reddit.com/r/bing/comments/111cr2t/i_accidently_...
Re:GPT-4 by robertfw on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @06:07AM (#35165965)
It's a pretty big risk to make any kind of conclusions off of shared images like this, not knowing what the earlier prompts were, including any possible jailbreaks or "role plays".
Re:GPT-4 by stevenhuang on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @06:36AM (#35166158)
It has been reproduced by myself and countless others.

There's really no reason to doubt the legitimacy here after everyone shared similar experiences, you just kinda look foolish for suggesting the results are faked at this point.

Re:GPT-4 by professoretc on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @05:29PM (#35159066)
> I have a sister of a similar age to me who doesn't have children. My 7 year-old asked me recently - and this is a direct quote - "what is she for?"

I once asked my niece, a bit after she started really communicating, if she remembered what it was like to not be able to talk. She thought for a moment and then said, "Before I was squishy so I couldn't talk, but then I got harder so I can talk now." Can't argue with that logic.

Re:GPT-4 by akhosravian on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @08:37PM (#35161957)
I do not have children. I think this perspective is interesting, thanks for sharing it!
Re:GPT-4 by AlecSchueler on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @09:42AM (#35168202)
So your sister didn't match the expected pattern the child had learned so they asked for clarification.

Pattern matching? You decide

Re:GPT-4 by calf on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @04:57PM (#35158465)
What's the difference between statistics and logic?

They may have equivalences, but they're separate forms of mathematics. I'd say the same applies to different algorithms or models of computation, such as neural nets.

Re:GPT-4 by kelseyfrog on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @07:00PM (#35160489)
Can you do with without resorting to analogy? Anyone can take two things and say they're different and then say that's two other things that are different. But how?
Re:GPT-4 by akhosravian on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @08:39PM (#35161981)
Sure. To be clear I’m not saying I think they are the same thing.

I don’t have the language to explain the difference in a manner I find sufficiently precise. I was hoping others might.