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Re:Why Are There No Relational DBMSs? [pdf] by goto11 on Monday March 13, 2023 @03:20PM (#35141022)
This violates first normal form. So if you want to query this result further you need a more complex language than relational algebra because you need to be able to query nested structures.
Re:Why Are There No Relational DBMSs? [pdf] by ccouzens on Monday March 13, 2023 @03:47PM (#35141403)
The normal forms are about how data is stored, rather than how it looks after a query. After all, most joins will violate second normal form.

But yes, SQL doesn't work well with this solution.

Re:Why Are There No Relational DBMSs? [pdf] by emmelaich on Monday March 13, 2023 @07:47PM (#35144996)
1nf is surprisingly tricky to define.

If you consider it as a single atomic list then it is still in 1nf.

It's only not in 1nf with respect to future queries IF you want to subselect from within the list values.

Re:Why Are There No Relational DBMSs? [pdf] by goto11 on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @02:33AM (#35148079)
1NF is defined as eliminating nested relations. I assume "[ cryptography, databases]" in the example represent a nested relation.

1NF is not defined in terms of what you want to do with the the data, it is defined in terms of domains, i.e data types. If a column allows nested tables, it violates 1NF.

"Atomic" in the context of 1NF means atomic wrt. the relational algebra.

Eg. if we have:

   Student: Bob, classes: [ cryptography, databases]
   Student: Alice, classes: [] 
Is it possible to select from this all students which has cryptography as a class, using the standard relational operators (project, filter, join)?
Re:Why Are There No Relational DBMSs? [pdf] by emmelaich on Tuesday March 14, 2023 @12:39PM (#35154276)
I think we're mostly in agreement!

You're right, it's not possible to select from this all students which has cryptography as a class. No more than if we did concat('cryptography', ',', 'databases').