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Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by diamondap on Saturday March 11, 2023 @05:42PM (#35113556)
I read an interview a few years ago where a reporter asked a writer what was the difference between authors who made it and authors who didn't. The writer said that the ones who made it stuck with it. They just kept on writing despite years and years without strong sales or recognition.

If you're going to stick with it, there has to be something there beyond a desire for sales or widespread praise.

Success, too, has its downsides. My wife is a painter--and if you think it's hard to make a living at writing, try painting. She met another painter who makes a huge income, but that painter complained, "My first sales were paintings of boats. And for years now, everyone comes to me wanting a boat. I'm bored to death of them. I want to paint other subjects, but this is what pays, so I keep doing it, as frustrating as it is."

Look into fiction writing, and you'll find few writers whose publishers will let them write outside their genres. Those writers may want to explore, but the publishers know what has sold in the past, and they want more of that. The only major author I can think of who sells big in multiple genres in Stephen King.

Self-publishing has been a godsend for those who like to explore. You can write anything you want and push it out at will. You might not make money at it, but you can do it.

At bottom, you have to choose your definition of success and failure. If you define success as being accepted by editors and critics, receiving praise and prizes from the publishing community and hitting the bestseller lists, all of that is beyond your control. It's like fishing for likes on Instagram.

If you define success as getting better at your craft, writing something that you and the few people you really respect like, then you can find fulfillment. I often think of gardeners who pour hours into their roses, not to get rich or to receive recognition, but just because it pleases them and fulfills a deep inner appreciation.

Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by bmitc on Saturday March 11, 2023 @06:31PM (#35113913)
> I read an interview a few years ago where a reporter asked a writer what was the difference between authors who made it and authors who didn't. The writer said that the ones who made it stuck with it. They just kept on writing despite years and years without strong sales or recognition.

That's a bit of a platitude though, because there are plenty of writers who kept with it but who spent their entire lives, or the majority of their lives, in abject poverty and little to no recognition. I get the general advice though, but it isn't a guarantee of course.

Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by amelius on Saturday March 11, 2023 @06:09PM (#35113749)
> if you think it's hard to make a living at writing, try painting

Current developments in AI don't make it any better for both professions, I'm afraid.

Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by radixor on Saturday March 11, 2023 @07:04PM (#35114309)
I know we’re not supposed to have positive opinions about MOC around here given those blog posts he wrote about venture capital but his recent take on the matter is worth reading.

It does seem like commercial art and literature are in for a tough ride, though high art and literary fiction may stay secure. The question and problem is that the two segments may be more interdependent than anyone wants to admit.

Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by codetrotter on Saturday March 11, 2023 @07:14PM (#35114487)
The Macedonian Orthodox Church did what?
Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by coldtea on Saturday March 11, 2023 @07:32PM (#35114747)
You got the Church part right.

"Michael O Church", who, for some reason, people act as if he's famous or important enough to be identified via an acronym, which isn't true even among HNers...

Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by radixor on Saturday March 11, 2023 @10:01PM (#35116004)
He was pretty big on HN and Quora before the thugs got him.

The world hasn’t forgotten. He’s a big part of the reason why no one believes in tech anymore.

Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by coldtea on Saturday March 11, 2023 @10:23PM (#35116186)
Dunno, had to look him up, and I've been on HN for 15 years or close...
Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by radixor on Saturday March 11, 2023 @10:38PM (#35116315)
He’s gone quiet of late, but his karma count was well into the 5 digits before he got shot in the back of the head.

He was too flashy about his intellect and got used as an example. That was his big mistake.

Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by Lyngbakr on Saturday March 11, 2023 @07:00PM (#35114217)
>...you have to choose your definition of success and failure

I think this is wonderful advice. Perhaps in the same vein as existentialists arguing that you get to define the meaning of your life, I like this sentiment that you get to choose whether you've succeeded or not.

Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by boznz on Saturday March 11, 2023 @09:13PM (#35115643)
Thats my definition, I spent thirty years reading and thought I could do a better job. There is a real difference though between thinking this and doing this.

I finally published my first book last month, I don't care if it sells any, I think it is good and it will still be there long after I'm gone. I'm certainly going to continue now the dam has broken.

Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by borroka on Sunday March 12, 2023 @12:52AM (#35117146)
In the words of a great writer, Philipp Kerr, who unfortunately died way too young: "“In a war staying alive is a bit like playing tennis. It looks a lot easier when you’ve never had to play yourself."

From Greek Bearing Gifts, part of the fabulous Bernie Gunther's cycle.

Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by magpi3 on Saturday March 11, 2023 @07:55PM (#35114964)
Agreed. My first thought when I saw the title of the article was: how are you defining failure?

Rejection is the term I think they are really looking for, but rejection != failure unless you only think of writing in very narrow terms.

Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by paulpauper on Saturday March 11, 2023 @09:02PM (#35115552)
Self-publishing has been a godsend for those who like to explore. You can write anything you want and push it out at will. You might not make money at it, but you can do it.

Yeah, anyone can write anything they want. That's what a diary is. Writing something that people want to pay for or optioned off to publishing house, is obviously way harder. Money is pretty important when it comes to paying for things that are needed in life.

Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by dhosek on Saturday March 11, 2023 @09:30PM (#35115782)
One of my MFA mentors, Tibor Fischer complained about that. His debut novel, Under the Frog was shortlisted for the Booker prize and his publishers wanted more of that, but he wanted to write different things (and did). His later books tend towards darkly comic crime fiction. I recommend The Collector Collector as a good starting point.
Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by NovaDudely on Saturday March 11, 2023 @09:49PM (#35115924)
Author John Michael Greer said that for you to make a reasonable living out of writing you have to end up with a large back catalog. This can take well over a decade to accumulate.

Mind you this coming for a fellow that has a very weird catalog of occult/spirituality, peak oil stuff and politics/economics things. But over 80+ books, there seems to be just enough residual income that it is working out for him. But as he said, there was a very long time where living on the poverty line was the only way through.

Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by ramg on Sunday March 12, 2023 @12:51AM (#35117140)
I've now self-published one book and have started a second. I haven't made enough money to even pay for the cover art! But I'm doing this for myself and if it results in a back catalog that generates income, cool. If not, then also cool.
Re:Living the writing life means living with failure by rikroots on Sunday March 12, 2023 @04:52AM (#35118112)
> Self-publishing has been a godsend for those who like to explore.

Exactly this. I tried "living the writer's life" 15 years ago ... but it didn't work out. The rejections hurt. When I discovered self-publishing (first lulu.com, then Smashwords) I went all-in: having the work available to whoever wanted it became more important to me than daydreams of wealth and acclaim.

I've never made money from self-pub (I give my books away), but it's nice to know that my work is being downloaded and (I assume) read across the world - even if it's only in small numbers[1].

[1] - there's graphs in the sheets, if you look for them - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VxvFe1laRhZXfC6VvebZ...