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Re:Ask HN: How do you start over with 2FA after losing your ... by bluGill on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @08:52AM (#35055311)
Nobody has a secure password on their phone, so your requirement fails. There is no way to get a secure password on a phone as one of the requirements of a phone is quick access, and no fast password is secure. (maybe finger prints, but I have found them unreliable and so I quit using them)

If your phone based code system is also available on other accounts, and you can access those other accounts without the phone then maybe. However many people only have a phone, and no other computer (or at least not a computer they use often enough that we can trust the 2fa isn't expired).

The 2fa I've seen mostly has a SMS based fallback, and thus is no more secure than SMS.

Re:Ask HN: How do you start over with 2FA after losing your ... by capableweb on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @09:05AM (#35055443)
> Nobody has a secure password on their phone, so your requirement fails.

Well, you could if you want to. That you don't want to, is a failure on your part, not on "everyone"'s part, since most phones do offer you the feature of setting a sufficiently secure password.

> However many people only have a phone, and no other computer (or at least not a computer they use often enough that we can trust the 2fa isn't expired).

You don't need a second device in order to backup your codes. By leveraging "cryptographic splitting" you can divide a secret into N parts and share them with friends and family, and if you need to regain access, ask them each for their part back and then you can recover from there. Now I guess that's kind of advanced so most people won't/can't do that, but it is possible at least. You could try something like https://iancoleman.io/shamir/ if you're curious about the process, I've done this myself for some things.

Easier solution is to create a encrypted archive with your backups, and upload to various cloud services. As long as the encryption scheme is secure, you'll be safe.

> The 2fa I've seen mostly has a SMS based fallback, and thus is no more secure than SMS.

I'm using TOTP 2FA for 100% of every service I use and that offers it. I think only one requires SMS-based fallback, the rest are optional so obviously I'm not using that.

Re:Ask HN: How do you start over with 2FA after losing your ... by carlosjobim on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @09:30AM (#35055722)
> Nobody has a secure password on their phone, so your requirement fails. > maybe finger prints, but I have found them unreliable and so I quit using them

You mean that you specifically do not have a secure password on your phone because you chose not to. The rest of us use finger print sensors or facial recognition to make our devices as secure as can be. Your argument applies only to you and a handful of people.

The SMS fallback is always combined with your finger print in all applications I've used.

Re:Ask HN: How do you start over with 2FA after losing your ... by goosedragons on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @09:43AM (#35055853)
How long is the pin code that can be used to log-in into your phone and likely must be used when you restart it? 4-6 digits?
Re:Ask HN: How do you start over with 2FA after losing your ... by konha on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @10:23AM (#35056321)
Use a long passphrase and unlock via biometrics.

Disable biometrics when handing the phone to somebody else or even remotely (e.g. mark as lost via “find my”).

Good compromise of usability and security.

Re:Ask HN: How do you start over with 2FA after losing your ... by jkepler on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @10:06AM (#35056120)
Biometric phone security is only secure until a judge or police officer compels you to unlock your phone; and legally you must comply, because your face or finger aren't speech. However, if you use a passphrase, (at least in the US and other countries with string freedom of speech laws) you can't be legally compelled to unlock the phone, as that would impinge on freedom of speech.

I never use biometrics to unlock my phone or computer for that reason.

Re:Ask HN: How do you start over with 2FA after losing your ... by konha on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @10:18AM (#35056254)
On iPhones you can press Volume Down + Power to disable biometrics (faceid) before you hand it to somebody else or when going through customs etc. It will require your passphrase to unlock then.
Re:Ask HN: How do you start over with 2FA after losing your ... by geraldhh on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @10:47AM (#35056637)
so the main usecase of this feature is to defeat the nice policeman/customs officer?

thanks! i always wondered

Re:Ask HN: How do you start over with 2FA after losing your ... by carlosjobim on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @10:20AM (#35056279)
That certainly is a case. Or they could torture and threaten you to give the password.

If this situation happens you can rapidly press the home button with the wrong finger and the phone will demand a pin code. Or you could turn it off. I don't know what recourse people with face unlock have.

Re:Ask HN: How do you start over with 2FA after losing your ... by huhneverthot on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @12:02PM (#35057770)
Android: long press power, tap lockdown. Your entire point is now just inaccurate. I do this when going through security checkpoints, if I were to get pulled over, and Android auto trihgers it under abnormal conditions upon which I have a decently long device-specific password.
Re:Ask HN: How do you start over with 2FA after losing your ... by more_corn on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @09:59PM (#35064640)
On iOS you can disable face and Touch ID with Siri “who’s phone is this” or by tapping the power button.
Re:Ask HN: How do you start over with 2FA after losing your ... by philwelch on Tuesday March 07, 2023 @11:43AM (#35057450)
> Nobody has a secure password on their phone, so your requirement fails. There is no way to get a secure password on a phone as one of the requirements of a phone is quick access, and no fast password is secure. (maybe finger prints, but I have found them unreliable and so I quit using them)

I think you’re overextrapolating from your experience. I‘ve used Face ID on my phone for 5-6 years now, and the fingerprint sensors on my recent devices have been very reliable.

Re:Ask HN: How do you start over with 2FA after losing your ... by friendlyHornet on Wednesday March 08, 2023 @05:50PM (#35075884)
Idk how secure this is, but my iPhone is protected with Face ID and a 16-character long password with a mix of upper and lower case letters, numbers and symbols.

The password itself was generated randomly and I managed to memorise it (it took a while).