Since the 1940s farmers have preferred hybrid seeds that don't breed true. Saving seeds is an extremely stupid thing to do, so no farmer hesitates to sign the agreement.

> Since the 1940s

sales totals as evidence?

> farmers have preferred

Which farmers, in what markets?

> hybrid seeds that don't breed true

does this apply to the Organic markets as defined by the legal definition of Organic ?

> Saving seeds is an extremely stupid thing

extremely stupid statements quickly accuse others of being extremely stupid, in my experience

> so no farmer hesitates

hesitation.. you mean understanding the agreement? then deciding on your own, with your own counsel ?

> sign the agreement

which legal jurisdiction ? what language is the agreement in ? where is the venue for resolution of conflict?

Heterosis.

It's a dick move to demand a citation for everything. Do you do that for all the posts you AGREE with?

hybrid seeds don't breed true. You need to research what hybrid means, I have no idea why you bring up "organic markets" as if the market/growing conditions affect the genetics of a plant??

The British government has 10 pages of rules and procedures for seed saving. Are farmers in Britain also "extremely stupid"?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/farm-saved-seed

I know nothing about this field, but people who do understand the situation in Kenya seem to disagree with you.

https://afsafrica.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/kenya-engli...

Your first link explains that when you’re a UK farmer and you save seeds, you must pay the government some kind of tax for the privilege. Oh, and also you cannot give or sell other people the seeds you saved.

Your second link is some kind of NGO the whole agenda of which is to promote seed savings. Hardly an objective source to learn the attitudes to seed saving of Kenyan farmers.

The point is that enough UK farmers do save seeds, that the UK government feels it important to charge them royalty fees. So apparently the seeds work.

The seeds work. They just don't work as well. Sometimes you can sell heritage crops for more and it works out. Not all crops of hybrid variants so there is it makes sense to save seeds.

I have no idea what the UK is trying to accomplish with that paperwork, so I can't comment on it.

>Saving seeds is an extremely stupid thing to do, so no farmer hesitates to sign the agreement.

Hard disagree. I know of a good few farmers seedsaving. They mostly do relatively small scale and/or organic and one I'm particularly close to's business is mostly centered around selling seeds so that's definitely not representative....but I dare say it's still a dumb statement. Especially in the context of Kenyan farmers where the majority of farms are comparatively small as per quick google.

This is an often repeated anti-GMO talking point, but in reality typical farmers don't want to spend time and effort in making their own, inferior, seed.

I agree, in first world countries. I'm not sure this is as true in the developing world.

Yeah, in the developing world they follow a lot of traditional practices, like seed saving or underuse of artificial fertilizers or pesticides, which results in bad yields and leaves them poorer.

Some might call that "more sustainable" and "less subject to foreign imperialist control"

Yes, the people who don’t care much about well being and flourishing of people in poor areas of the world might say that. Sure, they work their asses of hoeing the rows, and get quarter of the yields people in the west get with ten times more labor input, but at least it’s sustainable.

No, sorry, I reject this sort of anti-human approach — people in poor countries deserve to flourish too, and using best farming and industrial practices is crucial to achieve that. I find this sort of keeping impoverished people in a cycle of poverty in the name of “sustainability” (whatever that means) to be rather despicable.

It most definitely is true in India.

More to do with the patent than the actual technology.

How is it a dark side? It's part of the agreement and known before signing

Signing away future rights is a dark side. Similar to credit card debt.

"Foreknowledge of contractual restrictions" is not a sufficient condition of justice.