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Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by simpsond on Saturday February 18, 2023 @11:02PM (#34854224)
I replaced an old condenser and furnace with a 21 seer 5 head mini split system last summer. It’s much quieter and allows everyone to have their preferred temp. My biggest surprise was the efficiency. I have amp meters on my mains, and I thought something was wrong when we first turned it on. The old condenser was 32k btu and the new one was ~40k, but it consumes 30% the energy compared to the old unit on average. This is all for AC. As for heating, my electricity bill is higher as I replaced natural gas… but I have solar. Anyways, heat pumps are pretty awesome IMO. On a new build I’d look at geo thermal heat pumps. Still a lot of theoretical efficiency to gain with improvements.
Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by twothamendment on Saturday February 18, 2023 @11:27PM (#34854408)
I have a ground source heat pump to heat and cool my home. If you can do it, it is the best system I've ever had. You've got to have enough room for the horizonal loop, or drill some wells.

It is a bit expensive to put in, so I wouldn't do it unless you plan to live there long enough to recoup the costs. If I were to sell my house nobody would give me a dime extra for it.

Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by OJFord on Saturday February 18, 2023 @11:35PM (#34854448)
Well, I would! But I get the point, it's just chance of who's otherwise interested, and to actually get the amount extra they think it's worth you probably need two of them anyway.
Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by twothamendment on Sunday February 19, 2023 @01:01AM (#34854945)
The first house I built (designed, generaled and did a lot of the work) was super insulated. Selling it taught me that people just look at square footage and price. They aren't likely to know or care if is built better.

It was eye opening. I got a taste of exactly why builders build crap homes. Building code is the minimum and they build to it for a reason.

We are now friends with the people who bought it and several times they have thanked us for building it well. They didn't know what they were getting, but it is nice to see they appreciate it now - especially when the power is out and neighbors are crying about their cold houses and these lucky people are staying warm.

My third and final build I built for me. I never plan to sell. Even when my kids are gone and I only need half the house it would be very hard to find something to downsize to that would cost me less per month than I pay now. Ground source is that good.

Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by ulrikrasmussen on Sunday February 19, 2023 @02:39AM (#34855394)
It is crazy how cheap it is to heat modern houses compared to old ones, and this really ought to be factored into the price! The money you spend on energy is gone forever whereas your down payments go right into your equity, so most people should be happy to pay a lot more for well-insulated square footage.

Do you think this is really an information asymmetry problem? What if there was a standardized way to compare the cost of maintenance per M2?

Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by CalRobert on Sunday February 19, 2023 @05:54AM (#34856423)
Maybe it's cultural? We built a house in Ireland and our neighbours freaked out at the idea you could build a house without radiators, or heat a house without burning something (oil, gas, etc). It's been nice and warm (affordably) with just two air source heat pumps.
Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by raffraffraff on Sunday February 19, 2023 @03:17PM (#34861394)
Interesting. I live in Dublin, we have a terrace house so it's not that large. When we bought it 12 years ago we did a complete renovation (decent insulation, new gas boiler). Since everything works, I don't want to rip everything out and junk it. But I was think about filling the south-facing roof with PV solar and installing two air-source heat pumps. I was hoping to cool the house in summer and heat it from March to October for free. Plus in the sunniest months, divert extra electricity from PV to the hot water tank. But I intended to leave the gas boiler in place as a backup. Maybe I shouldn't. Anyways, if it ever breaks down I'll just have it removed.
Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by CalRobert on Monday February 20, 2023 @02:32AM (#34865926)
Nice! Maybe it's just Offaly.
Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by voidee on Sunday February 19, 2023 @08:43AM (#34857482)
A standard to compare costs would be ideal. Right now in the US, your best bet is to repeatedly mention energy efficiency in the listing and use a realtor who understands how to market it. Provide monthly bills to show actual usage and use the analytics which most energy companies and smart thermostats provide. Being able to show 50% energy usage compared to average homes in your area helps homebuyers understand the benefits.
Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by patrickk on Sunday February 19, 2023 @10:35AM (#34858425)
There’s a standard in the EU called Building Energy Rating (BER) which is disclosed when a house is sold. It’s a scale that runs from A-G, with A rating being the most energy efficient.

Anecdotally it doesnt seem to have a huge impact on the asking price.

https://www.seai.ie/publications/BER-Homeowner-Leaftlet.pdf

Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by ulrikrasmussen on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @09:48AM (#34881773)
There is a strong correlation between BER and the age of the house. In Denmark the majority of houses are in category D. Almost every house built after 2007 is >D and EVERYTHING that is built after 2011 is A or B, with a large majority in A.

My house is from 1935 and the statistics tell me that it is practically impossible for me to get the house above C. I think that it is theoretically possible but the required investment will be so big that it makes more economic sense to tear the house down and build it with modern materials and techniques.

https://sparenergi.dk/forbruger/vaerktoejer/find-statistik-p...

Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by cjrp on Sunday February 19, 2023 @03:30AM (#34855642)
Is there no equivalent to the Energy Performance Certificate[0] there? It’s not perfect, but it gives you a rough idea of how energy efficient the house is and where improvements should be made (e.g. insulation).

[0] https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/advice/guide-to-energy-perf...

Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by z3t4 on Sunday February 19, 2023 @04:33AM (#34855928)
* * *
Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by Gravityloss on Sunday February 19, 2023 @06:50PM (#34863154)
There could be an energy classification system to make it visible to buyers, to have something that uses the same scale to measure all houses so it's possible to compare. For example estimated average heating bill.
Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by matsemann on Monday February 20, 2023 @02:49PM (#34872066)
In Norway all real estate listings have an "energy classification" as one of the main data points. Example from a random listing I pulled up: https://imgur.com/a/0M9cNad

Of course, most people haven't cared that much about it. But it's changing with higher energy prices. I had a friend regretting buying something with grade F, for same square meters he pays like 10x the amount for heating than I do in my C apartment. (scale from A..G)

Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by JumpCrisscross on Sunday February 19, 2023 @03:13AM (#34855569)
Do heat pumps make sense if you don’t have central air?
Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by hn_go_brrrrr on Sunday February 19, 2023 @03:25AM (#34855621)
Absolutely. A mini split system is perfect for this use case.
Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by IanCal on Sunday February 19, 2023 @06:12AM (#34856557)
You can also use them to heat water and pump to radiators or underfloor heating.
Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by foxyv on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @11:12AM (#34897830)
I think I would pay at least $5-10k more for a ground source heat pump on a house. The energy cost savings are insane. I think I would even prefer that over a solar installation.
Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by leohart on Sunday February 19, 2023 @12:43AM (#34854864)
Which model of indoor and outdoor did you go with? My research into multi split suggest that going with multiple mini splits is more efficient. There is also a concern that multi split is not eligible for IRA tax credit
Re:200-year old heat pump technology is back by simpsond on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @04:04PM (#34887292)
I went with the Daikin 5MXS48TVJU for the condenser and 3 models of the head units. All Daikin. I didn’t want a bunch of condensers around the house, and I didn’t want to run power everywhere. I’m not sure about efficiency compared to multiple condensers or the IRA stuff.