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Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by sampo on Friday February 17, 2023 @09:28AM (#34835013)
I guess the bananocalypse will eventually come some day. But it has been predicted to come for decades already.

2005: The Cavendish, the version of the banana that rests on top of American breakfast cereals, is "on a crash course toward extinction."

2010: a new strain of the Panama disease, that the Cavendish banana is not resistant to, sprung up in 1992 and threatens the world’s most popular banana once again

2016: Why bananas as we know them might go extinct

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/13/business/media/no-serious...

https://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/06/commercial-...

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/22/africa/banana-panama-dise...

Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by ZeroGravitas on Friday February 17, 2023 @09:41AM (#34835170)
The bananapocalypse already happened:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gros_Michel_banana

Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by stewartbutler on Friday February 17, 2023 @10:38AM (#34835836)
Eh, they definitely aren't fit for major cultivation anymore, but you can still find them.

I picked up a basket (with a bunch of other varieties) from miamifruit.org a while back. They can't ship a lot of things to California, but if you live elsewhere in the lower 48 you should check them out.

Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by hn_throwaway_99 on Friday February 17, 2023 @10:11AM (#34835536)
Hence, the article...
Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by taeric on Friday February 17, 2023 @10:37AM (#34835829)
The truly baffling thing to me, is I swear one of the hardest emphasized lessons in grade school was on the dangers of a monoculture. And yet, the vast majority of farming seems to just double down on it.

Worse, non-farming does to. So many societies and institutions seem to try and build up the equivalent.

Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by pixl97 on Friday February 17, 2023 @10:41AM (#34835896)
It's just an advanced form of 'hand to mouth' existence, maybe we should call it 'capital to wallet' The fact a crash will come tomorrow doesn't stop most actors from doing what's going to profit them the most today.
Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by taeric on Friday February 17, 2023 @10:47AM (#34835974)
I think it is a little more nuanced, in practice. For a lot of amazing progress and such, the short term doubling down on something seems to make a ton of sense. As such, for the individual farmer and all, risky idea. For the town and the society, they can often ride the reward with minimal exposure to the risk.

My personal pipe dream is that we found a way to not load so much downside of risks on individuals. Which seems to be what we do.

Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by blowski on Friday February 17, 2023 @11:39AM (#34836885)
* * *
Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by jandrese on Friday February 17, 2023 @11:52AM (#34837048)
The problem is that monocultures enjoy great economies of scale, and it's extremely difficult to fight the market.

The little farmer who grows a variety of crops is out-competed by the corn growing neighbor who has relatively cheap specialized equipment and seeds available to allow him to work ever larger and more productive fields for year after year. The little guy ends up closing shop before the neighbor gets wiped out by some highly specialized pathogen. As John Maynard Keynes noted, "Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." Monocultures might be a bad idea in the long term, but for immediate profits they cannot be beat.

Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by searine on Friday February 17, 2023 @01:53PM (#34838735)
The threat of monoculture is overblown.

Yes if your entire society relies on one staple crop that has low diversity and no pest management, you are at high risk, but that is not modern society.

If the cavendish is wiped out, people would barely notice. Even if it happened with corn, it would be disruptive, but not catastrophic. Our food system is too diversified to really collapse from one disease.

Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by taeric on Friday February 17, 2023 @02:23PM (#34839088)
I grew up near a statue to the boll weevil. So, exactly. It can happen. Does even. Rubber trees, if I'm not mistaken, are another good example.

Doesn't mean that specialization can't have obvious benefits.

Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by jzebedee on Friday February 17, 2023 @05:57PM (#34841764)
Enterprise, AL?
Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by taeric on Friday February 17, 2023 @06:32PM (#34842043)
Yeah. I was actually "close" as in the same State. So, not right next to it. Did visit it, if I remember. (Granted. I "remember" a lot of things I didn't fully do. Maybe we just had a class that talked a lot about it. :D )
Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by Tangurena2 on Friday February 17, 2023 @03:24PM (#34840044)
The British switched from coffee to tea because their monoculture coffee plantations in what used to be called Ceylon died from blight. Their plantations were the descendants of 6 plants. A disease that affected one coffee bush affected every coffee bush.

The Irish Potato Famine happened because their potatoes were descended from a single handful of potatoes. As a result, a fungus that affected one potato plant affected every other potato plant. About a million people died from that.

The corn blight in 1970 resulted in the loss of 1/3 of the US corn crop. If the weather hadn't broken, up to 85% of that year's crop could have died. 85% of the seed grown back then used Texas Male Sterile Cytoplasm as part of the hybridization process. In response, the US government created and continues massive subsidies for corn production. This is why high fructose corn syrup is cheaper than cane/beet sugar, and why HFCS is so widespread in US food production.

One book that covers the history of monoculture failures like this is Altered Harvest:

https://www.amazon.com/Altered-Harvest-Jack-Doyle/dp/0140096...

One book that covers how prevalent corn is in American food production is Omnivore's Dilemma.

https://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dilemma-Natural-History-Mea...

The banana flavor used in candies tastes nothing like Cavendish bananas. That flavor was based on the Gros Michel variety that went economically extinct in the 1950s.

Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by cultofmetatron on Friday February 17, 2023 @05:11PM (#34841303)
> The British switched from coffee to tea because their monoculture coffee plantations in what used to be called Ceylon died from blight.

its quite unfortunate as srilankan coffee is quite good and tragically under appreciated. most locals will serve you nescafe as they think its "fancy"

Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by opo on Friday February 17, 2023 @10:28PM (#34843581)
You bring up a lot of good points. But in regards to:

>...This is why high fructose corn syrup is cheaper than cane/beet sugar, and why HFCS is so widespread in US food production.

As you point out corn subsidies lower the cost for HFCS, but the US also uses import restrictions to keep the US sugar price much higher than what it is in other countries:

>...The US sugar industry receives enormous government support and protection from foreign competition. The sugar program has changed over time, becoming a complex set of rules developed to promote sugar production primarily at the expense of domestic consumers. The program has also affected foreign producers and consumers through import restrictions that have significantly reduced the world sugar price. Since the mid-1970s, as a result of the sugar program, the price of sugar in the United States has been almost twice as high as the price of sugar on the world market in most years.

https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/-sweets-for-t...

Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by sclarisse on Friday February 17, 2023 @12:47PM (#34837853)
The problem with bananas specifically is that if you don’t have a seedless product, you don’t have a product to sell at all.

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Banana_cross_secti...

And that means monocultures propagated from cuttings.

Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by Zababa on Friday February 17, 2023 @04:10PM (#34840622)
It is the same thing as centralization/decentralization. Centralization is more efficient (economies of scale and other things) but more fragile.
Re:What’s Wrong with Bananas by acchow on Friday February 17, 2023 @04:26PM (#34840786)
I am seeing a renaissance in Apple varieties. Coffea is not a monoculture. Will other fruits and vegetables follow?