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Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by wirrbel on Friday February 10, 2023 @02:08PM (#34744204)
> Controversial opinion: by scaremongering about nuclear power—which the west could have started adopting in the 1970s like France did—the naked tree huggers did as much to set back climate change mitigation efforts as the oil lobby.

You would have thought that France would have supplied the European continent with electricity now that Russia cut its gas supply, but it turns out that France received electricity from Germany even during this time.

It turns out that even new builds of nuclear power plants take years to be completed. Getting safety right is a challenge, the more we know about engineering and material science for nuclear plants, the more we know about challenges in building them, the more we need to do to avoid these risks, the harder it is to build a safe power plant.

Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by robertlagrant on Friday February 10, 2023 @02:14PM (#34744281)
You wouldn't have thought that unless you thought France had capacity to power Germany just lying around.
Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by mikojan on Friday February 10, 2023 @03:16PM (#34745190)
Apparently Germany had capacity to power France just lying around.
Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by ad404b8a372f2b9 on Friday February 10, 2023 @03:36PM (#34745452)
Literally lying around in a pile of beautiful black lumps of coal.
Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by wirrbel on Sunday February 12, 2023 @02:52AM (#34760824)
and also beautiful brown lignite
Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by ptilt on Friday February 10, 2023 @02:22PM (#34744406)
What you don’t know is that in the 2010’s the left wing had a agreement with the Green Party to stop all nuclear by 2050. That’s why we stop financing and maintaining a lot of nuclear plants. It turned out it was a bad idea..
Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by shortcake27 on Friday February 10, 2023 @02:52PM (#34744828)
While I don’t know anything about that agreement, I assume it would have had been a push for renewables.

By 2050 it will be easily possible to power the world using renewables. Ending nuclear at that point doesn’t sound like a bad idea to me.

Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by goatlover on Friday February 10, 2023 @03:11PM (#34745116)
How do you know it will be possible by 2050 to go full renewable?
Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by shortcake27 on Friday February 10, 2023 @03:40PM (#34745515)
By using elementary grade extrapolation. Right now in 2023 there are multiple countries generating over 90% of electricity from renewables.
Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by Krssst on Friday February 10, 2023 @08:45PM (#34748692)
Which ones? Are we talking 90%, an the entire year, without creative accounting?

Disregarding electric dams because, while wonderful, those depend heavily on the country geography and I assume a lot of countries cannot build enough of them. (but we should build as much as we can of those, just don't expect 50% hydroelectricity everywhere)

Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by shortcake27 on Friday February 10, 2023 @11:32PM (#34749605)
> Which ones?

Norway 98% since 2016. Costa Rica 98% since 2015. Scotland 97% in 2020. Uruguay 98% in 2021. New Zealand pushing close to 90%.

> Are we talking 90%, an the entire year, without creative accounting?

I don’t know what this means. If a country reports that X amount of energy came from a particular source in a particular year, that means the entire year. And if you believe these countries are lying and doing “creative accounting”, then the burden of proof lies with you to prove it, not for me to disprove it.

Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by Krssst on Saturday February 11, 2023 @07:32AM (#34751781)
Norway: large hydro resources, low population. Costa Rica: 80% hydro. Scotland: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-56530424 says that renewable met 97% of energy demand, which does not mean that clean electricity was produced when it was needed in Scotland. Considering that this means the country could run at 97% of its production potential with only RE is what I consider "creative accounting". (the article does not lie but interpreting it that way is mistaken). Uruguay: only 31% hydro, that's more interesting. New Zealand: 55% hydro, 13% geothermal.

So except for Uruguay (which does look interesting), most countries mostly use renewable dispatchable sources which are perfect. But not all countries have the hydro potential / population ratio of Norway. We should use hydro as much as we can but we are limited by geography; once everything that can be used is we are stuck with nuclear, wind or solar. Maybe Uruguay could be an example of country that manages somehow with mostly solar/wind; I need to look into it. Thank you.

Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by shortcake27 on Saturday February 11, 2023 @10:53PM (#34759537)
Keep in mind it is also possible for countries to export electricity; for the world to be powered by renewables each country needs not produce 100% of it’s own energy demands.
Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by natmaka on Sunday February 12, 2023 @04:14AM (#34761319)
This is of paramount importance. Add storage (V2G...) and clean backup (green hydrogen...).

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/180592/european-cooperation-...

Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by natmaka on Sunday February 12, 2023 @04:13AM (#34761311)
Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by natmaka on Sunday February 12, 2023 @04:11AM (#34761300)
No.

The sole closed nuclear plant (Fessenheim) was the oldest one, disputed by neighboring nations Germany and Switzerland (all owning stakes in it!) for seismic-related risks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fessenheim_Nuclear_Power_Plant...

A new reactor (Flamanville-3, an EPR) was ordered in 2004, work began in 2007 for a delivery in 2012, it is not delivered yet and 6x times over-budget. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamanville_Nuclear_Power_Plan...

A huge program (55 to 95 billions euros) aiming at upgrading all existing reactors in order to run them for 60 or even 80 years was launched and runs: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_car%C3%A9nage

Governments adopted sustained nuclear R&D budgets. See «Graphique 1», French ahead: https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/energie-recherche-et-developpem...

Governments also sold reactors to Finland (running project, way over-budget and delay), China (2 reactors, over-budget and delay, and they stayed offline or at low-power for a full year after an incident) and the U.-K. (this is a running project, already late and over-budget).

Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by ohgodplsno on Friday February 10, 2023 @02:24PM (#34744442)
France was strongarmed by Germany and by shitty election related deals to elect Hollande into massive nuclear power closures and reductions, coupled with presidents unable to see more than 5 years ahead means that nuclear plants both do not get renewed and also get closed for absolutely no reason. See Fessenheim.

The issue with construction isn't that it's hard to build a safe power plant, it's that there's been no will from anyone, or active harm from incompetent shitheads.

Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by Krasnol on Friday February 10, 2023 @03:06PM (#34745027)
Hollande wanted to diversify France because it's not and they had to pay for this stupidity and still do to this day.

Fessenheim is the perfect reason for why Hollande wanted to close some of those plants: old, accident ridden, one of those which have to be closed down in summer due to possible overheating of nearby rivers and to top that off: it's in a region which may have earthquakes for which it is not prepared...

> The issue with construction isn't that it's hard to build a safe power plant, it's that there's been no will from anyone, or active harm from incompetent shitheads.

Weird because there are plenty western countries which do have popular support for nuclear energy but still struggle with construction times and costs in astronomical ways.

Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by ohgodplsno on Saturday February 11, 2023 @02:38AM (#34750391)
Fessenheim was amongst the top performing nuclear plants, and had no issues being given a 10 year renewal because of how safe it was before it was closed for political reasons. The EELV/Die Grunde kool-aid is not a good thing to drink considering how anti science they are.

And as always, the same awful arguments about "don't overheat the rivers", when the limits set by the safety regulations are way under anything that could damage the environment. You could triple the output heat in the river and it would change absolutely nothing.

Hollande did not want to diversify our energy production. It was a purely political play to get EELV's support and used Fessenheim as a sacrificial chip. Glad to see the German energiewende led to such diversification that you're running half your country on coal right now btw. https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE

Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by Krasnol on Saturday February 11, 2023 @06:39AM (#34751436)
> essenheim was amongst the top performing nuclear plants, and had no issues being given a 10 year renewal because of how safe it was

That is false. It was an old and accident ridden plant.

> And as always, the same awful arguments about "don't overheat the rivers", when the limits set by the safety regulations are way under anything

Luckily those limits are set by people who know what they're doing and not the nuclear astroturf online.

> Hollande did not want to diversify our energy production. It was a purely political play to get EELV's support and used Fessenheim as a sacrificial chip.

That's pure propaganda from the opposite political spectrum and is not even worth the discussion anymore at this point.

> Glad to see the German energiewende led to such diversification that you're running half your country on coal right now btw. https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE

We even had to get some coal plants back from retirement (just like you did) because your rotting nuclear fleet isn't performing and it's cold outside. You're welcome :)

Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by wirrbel on Saturday February 11, 2023 @06:42AM (#34751462)
Energiewende was cancelled by the Merkel governments in favour of nuclear until they made a turnaround with regards to nuclear after Fukushima.
Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by natmaka on Sunday February 12, 2023 @04:18AM (#34761343)
Exactly, the phase-out plan was initially delayed in late 2010: the government decreed a 12-year delay of the schedule. Then something unpleasant happened at Fukushima.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Germany#Closu...

Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by ad404b8a372f2b9 on Friday February 10, 2023 @03:30PM (#34745379)
Our national energy company EDF has been the largest energy exporter in Europe for ages, in 2019 it was the largest in the world. In addition to that it's made us the cleanest country in the continent for close to 40 years (along with hydro-rich countries). The notion that 2022 is a smoking gun for nuclear is ridiculous. All it reflects is the past 12 years of successive liberal governments writing laws and reforms to gut our nuclear fleet and EDF in favour of private companies.
Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by wirrbel on Sunday February 12, 2023 @02:53AM (#34760830)
that is if La Hague isn't leaking nuclear waste
Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by natmaka on Sunday February 12, 2023 @04:00AM (#34761230)
Even if it doesn't leak... France seeks strategy as nuclear waste site risks saturation point. https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/france-seeks-st...

Moreover the long-term deposit site (dubbed 'Cigéo') isn't ready.

Re:Everything I believed about nuclear waste was wrong by Krssst on Friday February 10, 2023 @08:41PM (#34748659)
Covid maintenance postponed + corrosion issues led to this bad timing; otherwise looks like it worked pretty well for decades.

France closed a working-order nuclear plant for political reasons just two years before, so we're not making exactly the brightest decisions here either.