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Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by phtrivier on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @01:26PM (#34696834)
Of course no ! We want him to resign.

(I meant some people will, I personally don't expect anything, and don't really care - none of this is in my power in any way, shape or form.)

Or at least, to give the rough date at which he will resign, so that someone more competent will run the company, avoiding the mistakes that brought it so bad that it has to lay off 15%.

There are mistakes that you can recover from, and you don't fire an exec (or anyone) at the first blunder. But if you have to cut an arm to recover from your mistake, you have to be shown the door, or at least the direction of the door.

Baring that, he can substantially reduce his income in the next few years, so that the company can be more generous with the laid off people. Reducing his salary is a step in this direction, but we don't know how the structure of his compensation - salary might be symbolic.

Also, has he made clear to his board that the situation is so bad that shareholders will also have to chip in, and accept reduced or no return on their investment for a number of years ? Again, sharing the burden.

Again, in the grand scheme of things, this is a least closer to "taking responsibility". Just, not there yet.

Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by vineyardmike on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @01:34PM (#34696963)
So I totally get your position, and I think many of the big tech companies that are laying off are doing it because “we made an oopsies” or as a me-too tag-along, but zoom seems unique in that their business and it’s place in society truly was transformed in the last few years. They tripled their headcount, because they needed more staff to keep up, and overshooting long-term sustainability by 15% when you grew 300% doesn’t seem so reprehensible.

Disclosure: I was laid off by a big tech company and I think it was BS.

Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by dahfizz on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @01:43PM (#34697103)
I don't understand this position. You imply that any layoff is a fundamental and serious mistake.

Zoom's revenue grew like 10X over the past two years. They had a legitimate need to hire and grow the business, and now the market has corrected and they don't need as many employees. The hiring and firing decisions are exactly what I would expect from someone optimizing solely for the well-being of the company.

It sucks for the people fired, but that doesn't mean the CEO did a bad job. It means you need to be realistic about what your relationship is to your employer.

Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by JohnFen on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @01:51PM (#34697238)
I think it does mean that the CEO did a bad job. The growth over the last two years was clearly going to be a temporary blip. Hiring theoretically permanent employees in response is simply bad judgement.

There are plenty of companies that exist in very cyclic industries who show the right way to handle this sort of thing. It's not like it's all a big mystery.

Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by dahfizz on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @02:06PM (#34697501)
> Hiring theoretically permanent employees in response is simply bad judgement.

This is not self-evident. Hiring the salaried employees over 2+ years could very well be cheaper than contractors.

If they had under-hired during to boom, then we would not have layoff today but the company would not have grown as much. The incentives are set to hire people when you need them and fire them when you don't anymore. Layoffs are not expensive or damaging to the company; they don't have any reason to avoid them. Zoom's stock went up in response to the firing.

Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by s1artibartfast on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @02:01PM (#34697419)
I think this is the key opinion in a nutshell. Some people see layoffs as bad management and other people simply don't
Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by agar on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @02:56PM (#34698488)
I'm confused as to your proposed solution. Should the new employees not been hired, and existing employees overworked due to understaffing? Should they have hired contractors and not paid benefits like healthcare?

The companies I'm aware of that exist in cyclic industries (game dev, retail) tend to either have brutal cyclical layoff periods, leverage a ton of contractors, outsource their work to other firms, or hire seasonal workers.

What in your view is "the right way to handle this sort of thing"?

Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by JohnFen on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @03:10PM (#34698715)
> What in your view is "the right way to handle this sort of thing"?

Don't lead people to think that their positions are permanent when you know very well that there's a good chance they aren't. The easiest way to to make time-limited contracts. That doesn't mean you can't give them benefits such as health insurance.

Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by tomnipotent on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @04:17PM (#34699804)
Except no position is permanent, even by the most liberal interpretation of full-time.
Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by mbesto on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @03:38PM (#34699172)
> The growth over the last two years was clearly going to be a temporary blip.

I'm sorry, but this is the most hindsight is 20/20, armchair CEO thing I've ever heard. Unless you have some sort of magic 8 ball, there was nothing clear about it being temporary, a blip, or any timeline of such.

Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by erik_seaberg on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @04:14PM (#34699764)
In fact some people relocated away from tech hubs, a huge bet on a remote first future. (I’m not one of them.)
Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by neon_electro on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @01:59PM (#34697372)
>someone optimizing solely for the well-being of the company

Is this how we're going to forever define an "employer"? I agree with your sentiment broadly, but what a terrible system we've created for ourselves.

Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by bbarnett on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @10:15PM (#34703650)
What? It is an excellent system. If you do not optimize as such, then the company implodes and dies.

How is this a "terrible system"? What is the replacement system, if so?

Should companies ... what? Provide make work projects? Build things the market will not support?

Or should companies just sell shares, then use the money as a form of welfare. Turn companies into a way for people to donate, so engineers can make 10x what the average employee does?

Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by lazide on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @01:44PM (#34697124)
So you want the guy who is doing less bad than others to quit (aka take the heaviest hit), because some small portion of the company needs to be laid off (15%), even though he is giving up far more than 15% of his compensation?

And by quitting, giving up any power or doing that job he is doing less bad than others?

How did that work out for Senator Franken? Or the Democrats in general?

I swear, it’s like folks can’t help but cut their nose off to spite their faces.

Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by phtrivier on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @06:10PM (#34701272)
Oh, no, I also wish the other CEOs who claim to "take full responsibility for mistakes" do in fact, take some responsibility.

I'm not forcing them to write the words.

If they want to say "we tried, it did not work, the economy got worse than we expected, yet we think we're still in the best position to run the companies, but we have to make hard decisions now", that's their stuff.

I wonder how it would play out for any other employee using this strategy in performance review.

"I take full responsibility for not fulfilling my OKRs, and therefore I will demand that your fire every one else in the team to afford my promotion and raise."

Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by lazide on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @06:15PM (#34701326)
How is not throwing away millions in compensation - or for this example, almost all compensation - not taking responsibility?

I’ve yet to see any line employee willing to take a major pay-cut because they screwed something up.

Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by phtrivier on Monday February 13, 2023 @10:52AM (#34775062)
As posited by other commentors, foregoing his salary while making the stock go up (by laying people off) is probably not "throwing away millions in compensation".

The analogy might be a saleperson violating a minor policy to ensure a sale. They would take a fee for violating the position, but their sale bonus would compensate.

Re:A Message from Eric Yuan, CEO of Zoom by autoexec on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @04:40PM (#34700164)
> There are mistakes that you can recover from, and you don't fire an exec (or anyone) at the first blunder.

Their first "blunder" would have been lying about their security and sending encryption keys and private data to china (https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/move-fast-roll-your-own-crypto...)

Even the most generous and forgiving view of Zoom makes them look completely incompetent and unfit for anything you want secure/private. A less generous view would see Zoom as a deceitful and malicious tool for data collection.

At this point, after so many lies and security issues I honestly can't believe anyone trusts Zoom for anything even remotely sensitive, but I'd think even the most trusting people would agree the company has a history of terrible actions/choices and the CEO is the person who is ultimately responsible.

I hope the employees who were laid off find satisfying work with a much better employer.