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Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by mrleinad on Monday February 06, 2023 @01:20PM (#34681722)
Motivation is s**. It won't last.

Discipline is what you want. And you can build that no matter what. Just start small and go from there. [0]

[0]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/55/34/a9/5534a9d2ac48a66cd341...

Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by aschearer on Monday February 06, 2023 @01:42PM (#34682043)
So you're saying that discipline is like a large, powerful, commanding force that demands action? Sounds awful. Like being a child being told to do their homework. Can't we do better?

Also can you explain what's going on in the second panel? Some strong underpants gnomes vibes. I mean, I like how easy it is, but I can't seem to find the switch in the mirror!

Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by mrleinad on Monday February 06, 2023 @01:53PM (#34682209)
> Can't we do better?

If you find a better way, let me know. This is the best one I found, and it doesn't depend on me having a good day and everything being hunky dory.

> I can't seem to find the switch in the mirror

Tidy your room. Start small. Grow from there. Plan, iterate, improve. Whatever you add to the routine, have it stick by sheer force of will and repetition.

Fuck your feelings. I mean that. Whatever your feelings tell you, tell them to fuck off. You have something to do and you're going to do it. Period.

Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by aschearer on Monday February 06, 2023 @02:25PM (#34682758)
Personally, I've been fortunate insofar as I haven't struggled with motivation. I'm happy you found a system that works for you, but truthfully it sounds harsh. Maybe some people simply need a dominant super ego that runs roughshod over their feelings to get things done... but the idealist in me hopes for something less authoritarian. Like, the whole dichotomy of "you" versus "feelings" strikes me as problematic. Your language, and the comic, seem rife with guilt and shame.
Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by mrleinad on Monday February 06, 2023 @02:44PM (#34683141)
Anything that doesn't try to cushion feelings feels problematic in this age.

I think we need to go back to the stoics, and forget about all this touchy-feely that being all soft is ok. Sometimes it's not ok.

When did self-discipline become a bad word for so many people?

Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by aschearer on Monday February 06, 2023 @02:52PM (#34683273)
Who said self-discipline is bad? Why can't we have self-discipline without shame, guilt, or authoritarianism? We're not children who need parents to force us clean up our rooms.

Sure let's be stoic, but I don't agree that means "fuck your feeling" or looks anything like the comic you linked. There's a third way.

Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by mrleinad on Monday February 06, 2023 @03:22PM (#34683759)
> We're not children who need parents to force us clean up our rooms

By parent you mean yourself? Because I don't think you're getting the point that sometimes your mind needs to stop and just do the damn job. And you need to be in charge of it, instead of letting it wander on endlessly.

Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by aschearer on Monday February 06, 2023 @05:04PM (#34685111)
Yes, by parent I mean the super ego or whatever metaphor suits you.

I believe I understand your point, and agree with you. You're saying "sometimes your mind needs to stop" and that "you need to be in charge of it." E.g. your mind might be very anxious and distracted by an upcoming work deadline and seek to soothe itself by reading Hacker News, but "you" should stop that from happening, say by installing a site-blocking plugin for your browser and instituting and adhering to "work hours" each morning. Assuming I'm not way off target, I agree with all that.

But it seems we're talking past each other, as I'm responding to your original comic strip which has more to say. The metaphors it uses, and that you have used in this discussion, depict compulsion. That's where I disagree with you. I believe force / shame / guilt work, but that we should aspire for a superior resolution to the problem. One not based on those principles.

Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by mrleinad on Monday February 06, 2023 @05:15PM (#34685247)
> we should aspire for a superior resolution to the problem

The superior resolution is that your mind gets trained not to wander off by constant repetition.

Your brain will always seek immediate rewards, it's just innate to your monkey brain. You have to train it not to. Same as you train a muscle to grow by having it lift weights even though it would rather not because it's painful.

Not sure why you say "shame" or "guilt", those were never part of my initial argument nor the comic. Force, yes, in the same way you force your arms to do push-ups or lift weights.

Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by skjoldr on Monday February 06, 2023 @04:30PM (#34684673)
I have a very strong suspicion of having ADHD and I can tell you that the brain hardware that can tell feelings to fuck off is malfunctioning in ADHD and is fixed by elevating the levels of norepinephrine. It is literally impossible for me to apply the very concept of discipline otherwise. Yes, this condition is as terrifying as you now imagine it to be.
Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by hirvi74 on Monday February 06, 2023 @05:35PM (#34685476)
No kidding. I am right there with you.

I get that motivation is a fleeting feeling, but what about when discipline and willpower are too?

I have succumbed to the idea that I basically just each day of my life like a game of roulette. Am I going to be productive today? Better spin the wheel to find out.

Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by saulpw on Monday February 06, 2023 @06:10PM (#34685893)
Spent whatever minute amounts of motivation/discipline/willpower on building simple and effective "systems" that require no motivation/discipline/willpower.

For example, I want to get better at playing piano, but it's both hard to set aside time, and hard to get myself to sit down for a set amount of time and Do Piano. I tried putting the keyboard in a few places, including directly behind my computer desk (literally 2 feet away from me), but there was too much friction involved in moving my chair and changing the lighting etc--it really wasn't much, probably 15 seconds of effort, but it required deliberate intention.

I discovered, though, that if the keyboard is on the landing outside my office with a dedicated chair, then I'll see the setup on my way to/from the kitchen, and it will sometimes feel inviting--often a nice distraction while waiting 10 minutes for a meeting, or while procrastinating on something else I'm trying to get motivated on. And sometimes 10 minutes turns into 30 or who knows how long, and my taxes may be stalled out but I sure am making progress on the fugue I'm learning.

Source: diagnosed ADD for 20+ years.

Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by skjoldr on Monday February 06, 2023 @09:09PM (#34687654)
Yeah, but this scheme becomes a huge problem with a device like a PC that can do anything while physically being in the same space. The only way to brute force that is to buy separate computers for work, gaming, and creative pursuits. Which is kinda expensive.
Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by saulpw on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @12:10PM (#34695495)
There are tons of different tactics! Be creative. You could:

- multiboot: one OS install for work, another OS install for games/other

- get a PiHole or modify /etc/hosts to blackhole certain known terrible sites

- leave a minor compile error for yourself just before you leave work, so that in the morning you type 'make' and get suckered into fixing the small thing, which gets you into the flow of work the next day (this has worked for me too)

Don't give up before you've tried or of course you won't find something that works. You never know whatIt took months to find that the placement for my keyboard works for me. Treat yourself like you would a child that you love, and be patient and persistent as you try to figure out how to set up your/their environment to allow you/them to function better in this weird life you/they have been given.

Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by mrleinad on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @09:41AM (#34693354)
> It is literally impossible for me to apply the very concept of discipline

That right there is why I don't like people that jump straight to medical conditions without analyzing other alternatives: unless you get reviewed by an actual physician, diagnosed, and treated, please don't assume and act on what you think might be the problem. Not saying you're 100% wrong, but it's most likely you are. And that might worsen the problem.

Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by Throwaway020423 on Monday February 06, 2023 @01:57PM (#34682279)
I suppose it depends on the person. In the past, I’ve tried to just be disciplined, stop procrastinating, and push through no matter what, and it lead to horrible burnout where I spent weeks/months being fairly ineffective. If you’re not sleeping at all at night and can’t think straight during the day, even for a couple minutes, you’re simply not going to be effective. You’re also liable to make really bad decisions that will drag on you even after you’ve recovered.

These days I try not to worry too much about procrastination, and get as much done as I can. I’ve found lots of little tricks to squeeze out more productivity here and there. If I’m in a situation where I just need to buckle down and push through, I will, but I’m not going to risk pushing myself over the edge when it’s not necessary.

Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by mrleinad on Monday February 06, 2023 @02:05PM (#34682388)
Did you include exercise in your day? I mean, I'm assuming you have a well rounded routine, which may not be so.

If you lack exercise, sunlight, or proper nutrition, lack of focus is the last of your problems to solve and more of an obvious consequence.

I find it weird how all those things are usually overlooked and everyone jumps to ADHD or something like that.

Re:Procrastination and the Priority of Short-Term Mood Regul... by Throwaway020423 on Monday February 06, 2023 @02:26PM (#34682785)
I did, and still do, but that's another thing that got severely screwed up by burnout.

Routine is a good word. I have a flexible routine now, and it's effective enough. It's not the most disciplined, and there's procrastination, but I don't worry about it and just try to make sure that I'm moving in the right direction.