News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf... by mlindner on Thursday February 02, 2023 @07:36AM (#34625694)
I'm not sure if you can call Brothers Grimm version "canonical" as from my understanding all they did was document in writing single versions of already well known folk tales that were carried through generations by oral memory. Many of which had many different versions depending on who told the story. So I'm not sure you can use the word "canonical" in this case.
Re:Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf... by kilgnad on Thursday February 02, 2023 @08:04AM (#34625961)
Its possible it still fits the word. The bible is canonical too even though it's basically a pieces of disparate texts.

Basically if it's the first and earliest record and the one that everyone looks to as the most accurate source it's canonical.

Re:Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf... by Dudeman112 on Thursday February 02, 2023 @09:27AM (#34626908)
The whole idea of caring about "canon" is fundamentally bollocks anyway when it comes to stories
Re:Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf... by xbar on Thursday February 02, 2023 @10:22AM (#34627724)
Reference?
Re:Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf... by pixl97 on Thursday February 02, 2023 @10:30AM (#34627881)
History? In the days before books were common stories were not told from written pages but memory. This allowed stories to change and adapt on the storytellers whims (or forgetfulness). Eventually they were ossified in books, of which many people think they are the 'canon'.
Re:Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf... by xbar on Thursday February 02, 2023 @04:04PM (#34633004)
Perhaps "canon" means something other than "you can't change a story."
Re:Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf... by Dudeman112 on Friday February 03, 2023 @09:10AM (#34641215)
I made it up. It's an opinion

The latest commit where the master branch finds itself in isn't any more "true" or genuine than the first commit in history, nor the commits on a fork, nor the commit on branch-1, nor the commit on branch-2

If it's all fiction anyway there is no truth out there for the map to be compared against. All permutations are real, all maps are the territory

I do find it amusing, however, that depending on context people consider the first commit in history to be canon, while on other cases they prefer the newest commit approved by the Authority™

Re:Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf... by kilgnad on Thursday February 02, 2023 @12:53PM (#34630400)
The word has meaning imo. It's used to seperate the fan fiction and maintain consistency during world building. It's quite important for the popular stories of our time, Star wars and the Marvel cinematic universe.

I know some people hate those franchises but like it or not, they are some of the biggest mythologies that came out in our time.

Re:Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf... by Dudeman112 on Friday February 03, 2023 @09:15AM (#34641264)
>seperate the fan fiction and maintain consistency during world building

Until even the original author retcons the heck out of their world and goes against established, explicit, well explained lore

Star Wars and the MCU are awful examples to use for the idea that canon can be used for consistency and authoritativeness

Re:Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf... by azernik on Thursday February 02, 2023 @01:04PM (#34630558)
That's relevant to the Bible, or Shakespeare, or the MCU, because those works' authors have authority in a way the Brothers Grimm do not have authority over folklore.
Re:Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf... by kilgnad on Thursday February 02, 2023 @06:10PM (#34634611)
Bible does not have authority. It simply has a large following. No one has authority over the content in the bible.

For the MCU, yes, by law Disney has authority over the MCU.

Re:Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf... by azernik on Friday February 03, 2023 @06:33AM (#34639888)
There are multiple competing authorities, but they are absolutely authorities, and their versions of individual texts are extremely close to each other.

Most notably, for the actual list of books there's the Catholic Church for the Catholic canon; the Masoretes for Judaism; Synods for the Greek Orthodox canon; and a broad consensus in the Protestant community.

For the texts themselves, the Septuagint and the Masoretic text are the only game in town for the Hebrew Bible, while the Greek texts of the New Testament were very firmly set in stone by the Imperial Roman Church (as central of an authority as it gets).

Note that some of these authorities (the Masoretes, the Imperial Roman Church) do not exist anymore. THat just means that canon is unchangeable, it still exists.

Re:Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf... by kilgnad on Friday February 03, 2023 @11:25AM (#34643273)
By authority i refer to lawful authority. Able to execute lawful enforcement and prevent editing and copying.

No one holds authority over the original texts. There is authority over translations though. But the original is open source with no license.

Re:Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf... by azernik on Monday February 06, 2023 @09:40PM (#34687932)
That is not the authority that I meant when I used the concept to explain how the Bible's canon is based on the existence of authoritative texts endorsed by authoritative sources.

You can make an edited version of the original Hebrew and Greek scriptures with whatever changes you want. But no one will agree to call it The Bible, because it does not match the text endorsed by the original authorities.

Same as how there still exists a Sherlock Holmes canon based on Doyle's work, even though you can legally write whatever you want even in contradiction to that canon.