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Re:Why Finland Selected the F-35A (2021) by Dalewyn on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @03:04AM (#34607777)
>The A-10 is obsolete. Its airframe literally can’t hold the power systems required to support modern defensive and offensive capabilities. It would get wrecked against any modern air defense environment. It was designed for the threat environment from half a century ago with no upgrade path.

Yet we keep flying it in the face of repeated attempts to retire it, with the USAF even going on the record that the A-10 will be kept in inventory "indefinitely"[1]. The A-10 is clearly not obsolete and continues to proudly serve the USA and its friends and allies, and enjoys much adoration from its pilots, mechanics, infantrymen, and civilian fans.

>F-15 and F-18 are not better at air superiority. The latest flavor of F-15 can still hold its own against other 4th gen aircraft but it will struggle against 5th gen aircraft. This has been demonstrated many times.

The F-15 has suffered no airframe loss to enemy combat action in its entire service history, that is a feat not easily met. The USAF even went as far as to procure new F-15s, the -EX model, because F-35 production wasn't keeping up.

As for the F/A-18, the Hornet boasts superior flight range and payload capacity besides being significantly cheaper, to say nothing of its proven air superiority and multirole capabilities.

>The F-35 can carry much more weapons payload than any of the 4th gen aircraft you mention and has more range. That on its own is a huge win, stealth and sensors notwithstanding.

That is patently false. The F-35 must sacrifice what little stealth it has to carry more payload, otherwise it can only carry a small handful within its internal weapon bays. Even accounting for carrying payload on its wing pylons, it still can't hold a candle to the other fighters; the F-15EX in particular can carry patently ridiculous payloads.

As for range, it pales in comparison to air superiority fighters (eg: F-15C/D/E/EX, F-22) or 4th gen naval fighters (the F/A-18C/D/E/F).

[1]: https://archive.ph/20170912212105/http://www.theaustralian.c...

Re:Why Finland Selected the F-35A (2021) by cturner on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @03:55AM (#34608104)
> The USAF even went as far as to procure new F-15s, the -EX model, > because F-35 production wasn't keeping up.

Is that the reason? I thought it was the need to counter the Chinese strategy of mass producing fighters with an idea of overwhelming western fighters through sheer weight of number. F35 is weak on per hour running cost and uptime per unit, and loses to the F15 variant if you are looking to scale.

The f35 can operate in a similar role to an e8 alongside a mix of cheaper aircraft.

Re:Why Finland Selected the F-35A (2021) by Dalewyn on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @04:29AM (#34608302)
Yes, F-35 production simply wasn't sufficient in the face of pressure from aging F-15C/D airframes that will very soon need replacements:

>Adding new F-15s was not an Air Force idea, but instead came out of the Pentagon’s Cost and Program Evaluation office, or CAPE, and was endorsed by former Defense Secretary James Mattis. While the Air Force’s long-held position has been to invest only in fifth generation fighter technology, it has defended the plan to buy new F-15s as a way to maintain fighter capacity, given the aging of the F-15C fleet and the slow pace of F-35 acquisitions.

>While the Air Force is adamant that buying F-15EXs will not reduce the requirement to build 1,763 F-35s, history and the Air Force’s own budget request suggests otherwise. The 2020 budget submission shows the Air Force buying 24 fewer F-35s over the next five years compared to last year’s plan.

Further reading: https://www.airandspaceforces.com/article/f-15ex-vs-f-35a/

Re:Why Finland Selected the F-35A (2021) by dirtyid on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @04:26AM (#34608287)
Yes, F35 production not keeping up with airforce recapitalization needs, something like 45% of airframes flying beyond service life. So need to plug gap with F15s.

> F-15EX in particular can carry patently ridiculous payloads.

But also this. Which touches on F35 being very complicated to develop for, and taking ages to integrate weapons vs F15s. And some operational considerations like not wanting to retrain F15 pilots.

Look at USAF 4+1 for next 15 years of procurement. Basically F35A, F15EX, F16CD, A10s and +1 being F22s that will be replaced by NGAD.

Read between the line consideration is F35/F22 was made for Europe/RU theatre, lacks range in PRC theatre without tanking, which are vunerable to J20s with longer range and air to air. Hence NGAD being mid sized bomber, and acquiring 100 B21s that cost as much as 1000 F35s.

Re:Why Finland Selected the F-35A (2021) by izacus on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @07:47AM (#34609707)
F-15EX also didn't meaningfully exist even in USA at the time of this contract and is barely starting to show up right now.
Re:Why Finland Selected the F-35A (2021) by dirtyid on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @09:17AM (#34610711)
Point is EX has continuity with prior weapons integration. AF wanted F15 capabilities and opted for modernized variant. Plus F15s simply carrying more = USAF opting to keeping mixed composition of airframes that excels in different capabilities niches instead of previous TACAIR proposal of going all in on stealth. Even A10, for as much meme calling for it's death, got a host of modernization that puts it ahead of F35 for certain missions short/medium term. AF still going to go HAM on 35s long term, but within next 15 years, they're reorienting for 4+1 mix because 35s simply won't be the stealth swiss army knife it was designed to be, largely due to software complexity that makes integration painful.
Re:Why Finland Selected the F-35A (2021) by Attrecomet on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @06:30AM (#34609122)
>Yet we keep flying it in the face of repeated attempts to retire it, with the USAF even going on the record that the A-10 will be kept in inventory "indefinitely"[1]. The A-10 is clearly not obsolete and continues to proudly serve the USA and its friends and allies, and enjoys much adoration from its pilots, mechanics, infantrymen, and civilian fans.

Because the US has, in the past decades, not waged a war against a near-equal opponent who could have held together any kind of air force or air defenses for at most the first few days of a US invasion. In all of the US wars since the A-10 might have been obsolete against a near-equal opponent, it was more advanced than the mass of opposing tech, and could be used well. For counterinsurgency, the cost of actually modern tech is more of a problem, given that the cheap old stuff is still far superior to anything a Taliban commander can put in the field, and given that guerilla warfare has as it's aim not tactical victories, but increasing the cost to the bigger party into politically untenable regions.

It is very much obsolete in the sense that the US also requires air capabilities for large, near-equal conflicts, and there is no unsurprising way for A-10s to be useful there. In summary: keep enough A-10s around for CAS against outclassed opponents, but don't plan on having enough to take on China, seems like a wise strategy.