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Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by k__ on Monday January 30, 2023 @05:08PM (#34587151)
Good point on the weird social structures.

I always found dating in the workplace kinda alarming, especially when people would date their subordinates.

Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by jacquesm on Monday January 30, 2023 @05:11PM (#34587193)
That's a reason to ask for immediate relocation within the company to ensure your love interest isn't in your chain of command/review and vv. Many companies have pretty explicit rules around this.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/growing-a-business/how-google-f...

Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by carlosjobim on Monday January 30, 2023 @06:12PM (#34588028)
The rest of the world laughs at the American prudes and their extreme fear of letting romance and life itself come in the way of the profit interests of their 85 year old corporate lords. I don't mean to insult, but please look at your reasoning and think about if it is healthy? Is it appropriate for an adult to talk about "lead to trouble". Kids get in trouble, grown ups don't.

Oh, it is so unprofessional to let the wonder of being alive ever interrupt the demands of efficiency and a steady stream of taxes to the IRS. Imagine the nerve of that co-founder who destroyed the startup for unprofessional things like having children! My accountant will make a very stern frown when I tell him.

Please corporate working Americans if you read this: It is okay to have romance in the workplace! Life is too short. All the rest of the world does this and knows it is natural and healthy.

Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by jacquesm on Monday January 30, 2023 @06:22PM (#34588151)
Yes, us Americans are all idiots /s

You may not mean to insult but you certainly don't come off as clever.

Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by carlosjobim on Monday January 30, 2023 @06:35PM (#34588304)
It is only from Americans I have ever seen this perspective and these thoughts being communicated. Otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned nationality. Every nation has their variant of conventions that make no sense, and this is the American entry in that competition.

How did I know you were American?

Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by jacquesm on Monday January 30, 2023 @07:08PM (#34588725)
> How did I know you were American?

You didn't.

Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by carlosjobim on Monday January 30, 2023 @07:14PM (#34588806)
Touché then! Sad to see these ideas spread outside of the US, they are extremely destructive to people.
Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by jacquesm on Monday January 30, 2023 @07:24PM (#34588932)
Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by carlosjobim on Monday January 30, 2023 @07:54PM (#34589219)
Great quote! That's my point now as well, the puritan ideals you are putting forward are only considered in a very small subset of niche industries, and on very fragile grounds even there. Nothing is more valuable and natural than romance, so please would you consider changing your values? Love is not something filthy that should be banished from the workspace, it is much more important than increasing the profits for the 85 year old stock owners.
Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by jacquesm on Monday January 30, 2023 @08:55PM (#34589851)
You seem to be stuck in a groove. I suggest lifting the needle and trying again a bit further. If that fails, try another record.

Seriously though: you are making a lot of fuss about a problem that doesn't exist whilst at the same time pretending that only the US has a workforce sexual harassment problem which I can pretty much guarantee you isn't the case, and which - without even knowing where you live - I guarantee is also a problem where you live, whatever your personal views on the matter, which seem to hover somewhere between 'outright dismissal' and 'romance is so valuable all rules should be forbidden'.

The profits of stock owners, especially those that are 85 have exactly nothing to do with the matter.

Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by carlosjobim on Monday January 30, 2023 @09:44PM (#34590186)
Dating in the work place is not sexual harassment, how can you come to such a conclusion? Look around in your life, don't you know of couples who met at their jobs or who worked at the same job? For each couple that stuck together there are many more who dated or just had flings.

The profits for the 85 year old stock owners have everything to do with it, since it is the company leadership who issues these insane policies of trying to forbid their workers from dating. It is one more way that they seek to dehumanize their employees. That anybody actually listens to them is bewildering to me. I haven't met anybody yet who has such low self respect that they would accept an employer doing that to them.

You talked about getting in trouble, but let's step back and we see that who can actually get into legal trouble if they discipline or discriminate against employees on grounds of their private affairs, or try to interfere in the privacy of their employees.

The crime of sexual harassment has nothing to do with this, the subject is dating in the workplace.

Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by jacquesm on Monday January 30, 2023 @09:55PM (#34590266)
You're still in your groove. Absolutely nobody said that 'dating in the workplace is sexual harassment' that's your strawman and I really wonder how you can be so confused that you believe that that is my conclusion, it really isn't.

So I'll ignore the rest of all that follows from that ridiculous conclusion because it isn't based in fact, nor is it attributed correctly (it's yours, not mine).

These 'insane policies' are issued by just about every workplace anywhere on the globe with more than a handful of employees because those policies seem to work reasonably well in practice whilst accommodating the reality that people will date other people in the workplace.

As for sexual harassment: that happens and more often than not it is exactly in the situation where superiors push subordinates to do more than their job description strictly requires. Likewise for co-workers if superiors don't run a tight ship.

That none of this happens where you happen to work doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And no, the subject is not 'dating in the workplace', the subject is Amazon that is selling a bay area office complex, but if you want to be specific I did mention the word 'superior' in my comment and you seem to have completely ignored it.

Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by carlosjobim on Monday January 30, 2023 @10:41PM (#34590617)
You are bringing up sexual harassment again and again when the top comment you replied to was talking about dating. Accusing me of weird opinions:

"pretending that only the US has a workforce sexual harassment problem"

I haven't touched on sexual harassment. I'm talking about dating and romance in the workplace, and I can assure you that few workplaces globally have any policies against this, including large and very large companies. Principally the largest workplaces of all: the public sector.

American corporate (and American inspired) anti-dating policies are creepy. Not even the Soviets infringed on their workers like that.

If somebody reads our little flame war here, I'd like to tell them: Your boss or company trying to control who you date is as weird as they trying to control what you eat.

But I do honestly think we have different perspective on the roles of bosses and workers in the workplace. For me, it is alien to refer to any boss as a "superior". They lead the daily work, and that's as far as their authority stretches. Referring to them as "superior" would be fit in a military setting, but nowhere else. Is the worker "inferior" then? Calling them "subordinate" is also very alien to me. Where does that kind of language regarding fellow workmates come from?

I've had bosses and I've been a boss. I'd expect my employees to laugh in my face if I tried to tell them what to do outside of job tasks, just as I would laugh in the face of any boss doing the same to me.

Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by jacquesm on Monday January 30, 2023 @10:43PM (#34590640)
Ok, goodbye now.
Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by rhaway84773 on Monday January 30, 2023 @08:20PM (#34589512)
So you think it’s not destructive for someone to not Resist unwanted advances because doing so might mean they don’t have food to put in the table?

Consensual peer level dating is not a problem in the US either. The issue arises when there is a power differential between the 2 partners. And I don’t know what sad little country you live in where one cannot meet anyone outside work, but doing so is not difficult for me in the U.S. at all.

Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by arcticbull on Monday January 30, 2023 @05:12PM (#34587209)
About 22% of US married couples met at work, and that number is increasing. Of course, dating subordinates is a clear no-no.
Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by grujicd on Monday January 30, 2023 @05:33PM (#34587480)
I get that power imbalance can be abused, and even if not - things can get complicated. But on the other hand, love does not know about org chart and if you meet your soulmate that way, why should potential long-life happiness of two people be less important than what HR says? Disclaimer: met my wife on the job 22 years ago, although we were both developers in same positions, not subordinate situation.
Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by bb88 on Monday January 30, 2023 @06:06PM (#34587961)
The power imbalance doesn't just affect the couple in the romantic (or lustful) entanglement. It affect those outside of the entanglement as well.

At the worst it can be akin to nepotism which can quickly erode morale and productivity -- (there's no reason to work harder since the "fiance" will get the promotion).

At a previous company a manager dated her direct employee, and working in her team was really an awful experience because of it. Everyone knew it, and nobody could say anything for fear of retribution.

Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by itsoktocry on Monday January 30, 2023 @05:16PM (#34587257)
Sure, but is it a "good thing"? Or is it that people spend so much time at work it's the only chance they have of meeting anyone?
Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by chrsig on Monday January 30, 2023 @05:27PM (#34587400)
No, it's really a terrible thing -- both for what you noted, and the fact that if a relationship sours it could impact coworkers.

Any given relationship sprouting from coworking isn't terrible, but in aggregate, I think it warrants a decent amount of frowning.

Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by 1123581321 on Monday January 30, 2023 @05:30PM (#34587450)
It’s a good way to meet people with shared interests. Everyone with more free time, not everyone wants to attend meetups outside of work. Not saying meeting at work has no downsides.
Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by eddsh1994 on Monday January 30, 2023 @05:27PM (#34587398)
It is if the divorce rates are lower than the average, it isn't if it's higher (indicating less-optimal marriages due to lack of social life)
Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by philwelch on Monday January 30, 2023 @05:43PM (#34587634)
It’s probably better than relying on Tinder.
Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by carlosjobim on Monday January 30, 2023 @06:20PM (#34588129)
Maybe people work at the same place because they have similar interests? We are not randomly assigned where to work, it is a personal choice. Is it better for couples to meet when they're out getting blasted on the weekend?
Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by mshake2 on Monday January 30, 2023 @05:29PM (#34587430)
How about the CEO and director of HR are married, and your department head is married to the head of a department that your team supports, and the heads of finance are married to each other. All in one company! Strange power dynamics everywhere in those nepotistic little fiefdoms.
Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by mfer on Monday January 30, 2023 @06:01PM (#34587886)
Sounds like a family business.

I remember the first large company I worked for. There were married couples there, parents and their kids there, an aunt with her nephew there.

There are a lot of ways to have family at a company.

Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by mshake2 on Monday January 30, 2023 @06:43PM (#34588412)
It wasn't a family business. The CEO fired the old HR and hired his wife to replace her. My department manager married the other dept manager. The finance head hired his wife when they expanded the department. With the exception of my dept manager, I guess it was just very lucky that these people's partners were "the best person for the job" out of the applicant pool.
Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by raz32dust on Monday January 30, 2023 @05:20PM (#34587305)
Given we spend a significant portion of lives at work, I think it's a good thing that people find life partners at work and a loss from remote work
Re:Amazon Is Selling Its 29-Acre Bay Area Property as Return... by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Monday January 30, 2023 @06:06PM (#34587953)
I think it is evidence we spend entirely too much of our lives at work and thinking about work. Workaholics disagree, I'm sure.