Even separately, these things were almost impossible to get when I travelled to Europe: most bars and restaurants said they didn't have ice. And the cold water was maybe less warm than the ambient air, but not really cold.

I believe we in the US are more focus on pleasure - and I'd roll pragmatism into pleasure.

Ah yes, Amsterdam, the city known for its seriousness and lack of fun.

That said, I have to admit, I dislike ice-cold water.

The fact that you like very cold water and equate that to pleasure doesn't mean that everyone does the same. I don't enjoy cold water with ice in it but I do enjoy very cold beer. Does that mean I don't like comfort or pleasure?

Seems to me that pleasure is linked to personal preferences and also follows cultural lines (regional, national, ethnic, etc).

Funny story, somewhat similar to your ice-water tale. Went to Greece (Crete) on holiday and I couldn't get my hands on a fresh lemonade no matter what. Lemons were literally falling off trees on the side of the road but serving lemonade was just not part of the local culture. Their view was, why would I want to drink water mixed with lemon juice when I could have better things like fresh orange juice.

Does this mean that Cretans don't like pleasure? No, it just means that they find pleasure in different things.

In what real sense is America less extreme?

Thomas Jefferson still seems to be quite popular to quote, even here on HN.

Literally a pro-slavery intellectual position defended on HN, thx for the case study.