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Re:The president of Toyota will be replaced to accelerate th... by askvictor on Thursday January 26, 2023 @03:44PM (#34538544)
One of the hardest parts about hydrogen is bootstrapping the infrastructure. You need new production facilities, pipelines, storage tanks, pumps, and probably a lot more. All of which need to handle hydrogen, an extremely flammable gas that likes to squeeze through any material you contain it in due to its tiny size. In terms of switching away from oil, the only options are biofuels (which have their own major issues) or electricity (which already has a distribution system across much of the world). If we run out of Lithium in the ground, we'll start recycling it a lot more efficiently. While mining isn't ideal, at least mining and using Lithium isn't causing climate change.

The fact you can charge you EV at home (from your own solar panels if you have then) is a massive added bonus that's going to be hard to convince people away from once its established.

Thinking about what comes after battery cars (assuming there's a Lithium shortage) - I'd be very surprised if Hydrogen can scale up; I think it's much more likely we move to other battery tech, or perhaps novel liquid fuels. Hydrogen was always a greenwashing ruse by petrolchem companies.

Re:The president of Toyota will be replaced to accelerate th... by sbradford26 on Thursday January 26, 2023 @03:47PM (#34538593)
I don't think most people truly appreciate how difficult hydrogen is to work with. It is nothing like fossil fuels which can happily sit in a regular tank for extended periods of time and be fine.
Re:The president of Toyota will be replaced to accelerate th... by theshrike79 on Thursday January 26, 2023 @05:32PM (#34539832)
Way too many people advocating for hydrogen vehicles seriously have an idea in their mind where they just pour hydrogen into a their current vehicle, and it'll still make the comforting brr-brr sounds they're used to.

They don't actually want a hydrogen vehicle, they just don't want an EV and use "hydrogen is coming Soon(tm)" as justification for it.

Re:The president of Toyota will be replaced to accelerate th... by _hypx on Thursday January 26, 2023 @07:04PM (#34540661)
People have actually looked seriously at what a world of only EVs would look like. It is basically a disaster of unsustainable resource consumption. Hence the need for hydrogen cars. EV believers have their own misperceptions about what is a good idea and what isn't.
Re:The president of Toyota will be replaced to accelerate th... by theshrike79 on Friday January 27, 2023 @02:39AM (#34543623)
* * *
Re:The president of Toyota will be replaced to accelerate th... by _hypx on Friday January 27, 2023 @02:53AM (#34543684)
Should be noted that fuel cells are batteries. We can already eliminate this problem right away. But we must "wait" for future batteries for no reason at all.
Re:The president of Toyota will be replaced to accelerate th... by askvictor on Friday January 27, 2023 @04:27PM (#34552124)
No, fuel cells consume fuel; effectively they are oxidising it in order to make electricity directly. For a hydrogen fuel cell, you still need to add hydrogen when it runs out. Whereas a battery (in the accepted usage of the word) is self-contained - electricity can be pumped in to recharge it, but no fuel.
Re:The president of Toyota will be replaced to accelerate th... by _hypx on Friday January 27, 2023 @09:36PM (#34554530)
Fuel cells do not consume fuel. It converts hydrogen and oxygen into water. You can reconvert water back into hydrogen and oxygen. You can conceive of a fully closed-cycle system for this.

But it's not worth it, since you are just carrying a big tank of water for no reason. It is a smarter solution that a battery which does carry everything at all times.

Re:The president of Toyota will be replaced to accelerate th... by _hypx on Thursday January 26, 2023 @03:59PM (#34538749)
There's only one element above lithium on the periodic table. If there's a replacement for lithium, it is hydrogen.

Most of what you say is not that different than what people said about batteries. Let's not forget that li-ion batteries are really hard to make and have their own major challenges, and for a long while seemed like a terrible idea. The story is basically repeating with anti-hydrogen arguments.

This includes the dumbest of them all: that it is just a conspiracy by oil companies. Last I checked, there is no carbon in hydrogen, and "novel liquid fuels" will imply adding carbon to it. So either it is not a conspiracy by the oil companies, or the oil companies were right all along.

Re:The president of Toyota will be replaced to accelerate th... by askvictor on Thursday January 26, 2023 @05:09PM (#34539588)
Given your seeming misunderstanding of chemistry, I'm not going to debate any further, but for the sake of others reading, I'll point out that there are two elements above Lithium (Hydrogen and Helium), and that Lithium is a (solid at room temperature) metal makes all the difference. And the fact that Lithium not being burnt as a fuel like H2 (thus requiring fuel storage and refueling), but instead as part of a compound that is used for energy storage.
Re:The president of Toyota will be replaced to accelerate th... by _hypx on Thursday January 26, 2023 @05:19PM (#34539694)
You are misreading my statement. There is literally only one element directly above lithium on the periodic table. I was not referring to atomic mass.

Hydrogen is not burned in a fuel cell. It works the same way as lithium does in an li-ion battery. However, you can use hydrogen in a combustion engine, also as a compound for energy storage. Also, "fuel storage and refueling" is a huge advantage because you don't need to worry about slow recharging. This is often seen as an advantage.

Re:The president of Toyota will be replaced to accelerate th... by CydeWeys on Thursday January 26, 2023 @07:06PM (#34540673)
What argument do you think you're making here by referring to the layout of the periodic table?

You might rather refer to a color-coded periodic table which shows which elements are gases and which are solids at room temperature. That's a much more relevant concern than whatever you're trying to say.

Re:The president of Toyota will be replaced to accelerate th... by _hypx on Thursday January 26, 2023 @07:15PM (#34540756)
The point is that any material below lithium on the periodic table will likely result in a lower energy density battery chemistry. If you want something fundamentally superior than li-ion, there's really only one option. Hence why any replacement for li-ion is likely to heavily emphasize hydrogen.