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Re:Macroeconomic Changes Have Made It Impossible for Me to W... by brookst on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @11:21AM (#34520177)
Couple days apart, and they announced an investment, but the $10B figure is rumors. Could be right, could be wrong.

But so what? There’s no gotcha here; it’s not like Microsoft or Google or Amazon claimed they were cash poor and could t afford to pay people. They are changing the areas they spend money in. Would it be better if they were only cutting back and not also investing in new areas?

Re:Macroeconomic Changes Have Made It Impossible for Me to W... by t-writescode on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @12:20PM (#34521132)
The comment thread you're responding to is reflecting on how painful it is to be laid off when:

  * showing profits
  * showing multi-billion in investments in new companies
  * when the money saved is tiny compared to the increased year-over-year profits
on a topic that's a short story in the form of a letter written by someone pretending to be a CEO and telling the story's real truth about a layoff: that they don't feel like paying the reader anymore.

"But so what?"

Their response is _exactly_ on topic. There is a real sting on these human lives where a company has decided they don't have value relative some new tech purchase. This is contrary to particular ethics frameworks many of us are familiar with around human value.

Re:Macroeconomic Changes Have Made It Impossible for Me to W... by brookst on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @01:12PM (#34521964)
Apologies if I sounded like I was unsympathetic to the people. I’ve been laid off, I know it hurts.

But I guess I don’t see how empathizing with that means. . . What? Microsoft should cancel an investment they think is strategic? Microsoft should keep job roles they no longer things are important?

Highly profitable companies like Microsoft are not zero sum. Nobody said “let’s lay people off so that we can invest in openAI”. Each decision is made independently, for its own ROI. If they believed that keeping these people and making the investment was the best approach, they have the funds to do so, easily.

I love the McSweeney’s piece, and I’m sympathetic to those laid off, I just don’t get the innuendo that a company should do something differently.

Re:Macroeconomic Changes Have Made It Impossible for Me to W... by t-writescode on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @01:46PM (#34522421)
A useful question I think can be asked in circumstances like this is "what value does this new comment bring to the table?"

If a family in financial trouble just lost their son to a car accident, for example, is it the right time to say "well, at least you won't need to pay for his college."?

Re:Macroeconomic Changes Have Made It Impossible for Me to W... by ShroudedNight on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @02:47PM (#34523203)
There is a third option: Redeploying existing talent to the new strategic objectives.

Especially in software, skills are pretty fungible, and most of the support organization's on-going requirements are likely to be highly agnostic of what, specifically, is being engineered.

Re:Macroeconomic Changes Have Made It Impossible for Me to W... by s1artibartfast on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @03:12PM (#34523515)
If the company actually thought they could make more money by redeploying, they would. Positive ROI strategic objectives are not obvious or readily available. If they were, the company would already be pursuing them.

IT does bring up an interesting alternative. What if instead of layoffs, companies provided an ultimatum:

Your employment costs $X. You have 3 months to find a new source of $X+1 revenue that requires your continued labor.

Re:Macroeconomic Changes Have Made It Impossible for Me to W... by moe091 on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @01:17PM (#34522024)
Just because they don't hypocritically claim they care about their employees and only laid them off because they HAD to, doesn't mean we shouldn't criticize them and (if possible) use our leverage as workers to influence them to make better decisions. Just because we know corporations only value profit, to the detriment of human quality of life in general, doesn't mean we should accept it
Re:Macroeconomic Changes Have Made It Impossible for Me to W... by s1artibartfast on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @03:15PM (#34523556)
As someone who holds stocks, I see value and appreciate that those corporations work hard to maximize my returns over providing charity employment.

Shareholders like me are the ones you have to convince, not some CEO or abstract concept of a corporation.

Fair warning, you will have to convince me that it is more important than supporting my children and maximizing my retirement.

Re:Macroeconomic Changes Have Made It Impossible for Me to W... by bbzealot on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @05:19PM (#34524957)
I’m pretty sure that if you need some stock to grow in order to support your children, then your influence on a public company is virtually irrelevant.
Re:Macroeconomic Changes Have Made It Impossible for Me to W... by s1artibartfast on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @05:29PM (#34525051)
You have a good point on my individual control of a public company is quite small. Luckily, basically every single other stockholder has the same reason for owning the stock as me- making money.

There is basically no risk that a different group of stockholders with more voting power want to run it as a public works jobs program

Re:Macroeconomic Changes Have Made It Impossible for Me to W... by bbzealot on Thursday January 26, 2023 @08:20AM (#34531277)
Yet the fact that shareholders want to get richer doesn’t mean that laying off people when a company is drowning in money is ethically right.
Re:Macroeconomic Changes Have Made It Impossible for Me to W... by s1artibartfast on Thursday January 26, 2023 @10:46AM (#34533174)
If you want to look at it simply in terms of ethics, I'm not sure layoffs are always unethical, even if the company is profitable.

I do think it is unethical to jerk people around (e.g. new hires), but I think generous severance goes a long way towards addressing this.

Re:Macroeconomic Changes Have Made It Impossible for Me to W... by kgwgk on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @06:03PM (#34525398)
> use our leverage as workers to influence them to make better decisions

Most workers don’t want to use their leverage to make corporations make better decisions - they want to use their leverage to get paid more.