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Re:Why the Google layoffs are about personal ambition and po... by WalterBright on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @10:31PM (#34514049)
> But what labor did they contribute?

I.e. you're positing the "Labor Theory of Value", which is the basis of Marxism.

The LToV errs in assigning zero value to risk-taking and the fact that some people are far more productive than others.

Re:Why the Google layoffs are about personal ambition and po... by nerdponx on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @11:17PM (#34514351)
Is it any more in error than equating market price with value?
Re:Why the Google layoffs are about personal ambition and po... by WalterBright on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @11:58PM (#34514595)
Nobody has ever found a better way. What you're willing to pay for something determines its value to you.
Re:Why the Google layoffs are about personal ambition and po... by nerdponx on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @12:46AM (#34514859)
The assumption that price paid == utility is only valid in the economic equivalent of "assume no friction" from intro-level physics. The equivalence isn't guaranteed to hold once you bring individuals' budget sets and various market distortions into play (information problems, sticky prices, et alia). You see the same thing on the supply side, with the assumption that price sold == marginal cost breaking down in general, except under very specific conditions.
Re:Why the Google layoffs are about personal ambition and po... by WalterBright on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @01:51PM (#34522502)
Bottom line: you're still only valuing something by what you are willing to pay for it. That is its value to you. (Others assign a different value, but that's how the market works.)

Supply + Demand determine the value.

Re:Why the Google layoffs are about personal ambition and po... by komali2 on Thursday January 26, 2023 @10:57PM (#34542266)
Right but notice utility is mentioned nowhere. Demand is totally irrational, because it's human. See toilet paper, fujifilm x100v, tesla stock, NFTs. Supply can be arbitrarily subject to the irrational whims of humanity as well - see oil, diamonds.

"Supply + demand" seems an oversimplification of a huge chain of irrational human links.

Re:Why the Google layoffs are about personal ambition and po... by komali2 on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @01:27AM (#34515074)
Ok, so then, I'm doing a labor theory of value.

What actual risk does an investor take? Loss of capital? Compared to an employee who, in the situation where capital is lost, loses the means by which they feed and house themselves, and in the USA, provide healthcare for themselves?

On top of which, right now, investors aren't really taking much loss. This action by Google is done for shareholder value. So not only is the loss for an employee higher in a situation that "harms" a shareholder, it's also more pervasive: the employee might get fired anyway through no fault of their own, even if it's not because the company is going bankrupt and everyone's losing their money.

And while all this is happening the investor has invested in other ventures, potentially even competitors. If google goes bankrupt they lose their initial investment, which by most financial advisories I see should not account for a significant portion of their investment, retirement, or even just savings, so by material measures, they'll be fine.

Meanwhile the employee has put in their time, energy effort. They haven't been able to explore other means of making money, do research into potential investments for themselves. They've been building social capital, specific domain knowledge, client relationships, things that hold some value after a Google collapse, but not all.

At the end of the day I just don't see why what an investor does has any value at all compared to an employee. Can you help me understand better what you mean?

Re:Why the Google layoffs are about personal ambition and po... by WalterBright on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @01:52PM (#34522532)
> I just don't see why what an investor does has any value at all compared to an employee

Without investors, the employee does not get paid, as there is no money to pay him.

Re:Why the Google layoffs are about personal ambition and po... by komali2 on Thursday January 26, 2023 @10:54PM (#34542252)
Google has 256 billion dollars in revenue. Can't they use some of that to pay the employee?