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Re:Japan: The Harbinger State by rwmj on Monday January 23, 2023 @06:47AM (#34487739)
Housing in Japan is so peculiar that it seems difficult to draw global lessons from it. Are there any other countries in the world where a perfectly servicable house that is over 30 years old is literally worth less than nothing (because it "must" be demolished before the land can be reused)?
Re:Japan: The Harbinger State by zirgs on Monday January 23, 2023 @07:20AM (#34487960)
Depends on location. Some houses are indeed worth next to nothing, because nobody wants to live there.

In many cases a big farming company buys land with a house on it and then lets the house to rot, because they only need the farmland that's around it. And they don't bother to demolish the house, because it costs money.

Re:Japan: The Harbinger State by alangibson on Monday January 23, 2023 @07:05AM (#34487865)
I've never heard this before. Any insight into why values so quickly drop to 0?
Re:Japan: The Harbinger State by makeitdouble on Monday January 23, 2023 @07:27AM (#34488021)
Building codes changing and earthquake resistant construction: plumbing is more flexible and less durable, shake resistance technology evolves enough to make old building deprecated (or the house is straight build with light wood with a set life expectancy)
Re:Japan: The Harbinger State by rwmj on Monday January 23, 2023 @07:32AM (#34488059)
This is the reason often given, but I don't think it's always the true reason. I think people just don't want to live in a house that another family lived in if they have the choice (rental apartments seem to be different).
Re:Japan: The Harbinger State by numpad0 on Monday January 23, 2023 @08:15AM (#34488349)
It's not just regulations and earthquake resistance, thermal and noise insulation too improve over time, following economic growth.
Re:Japan: The Harbinger State by pezezin on Monday January 23, 2023 @05:39PM (#34496133)
My experience living in Japan is that thermal and noise insulation is pretty much non-existent here.
Re:Japan: The Harbinger State by makeitdouble on Monday January 23, 2023 @07:00PM (#34496962)
It costs a bunch. Renting a reasonably priced standard room in Tokyo won't land such perks.

Going up to family size appartments in recently built middle-class complexes will usually come with pretty good insulation and you won't hear a baby crying at top volume.

Re:Japan: The Harbinger State by pezezin on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @06:53AM (#34502457)
The sad thing is that I live in Aomori, and the construction quality here is abysmal. I would understand the lack of proper insulation in warmer areas, but in Tohoku and Hokkaido?

And don't get me started on the lack of proper central heating and the use of the stupid portable kerosene heaters. Today I heard from a guy who is working for the village office that the most common emergency call now in winter are from elder people who suffered thermal shock inside their own houses when walking from a warm room to an almost frozen room.

Re:Japan: The Harbinger State by makeitdouble on Monday January 23, 2023 @09:51AM (#34489401)
Earthquakes’ influence isn’t just about when they happen. I might be hard to visualize but the actual structure and materials need to change to adapt.

For instance in europe lead pipes were widely used for the internal plumbing and nowadays it’s replaced by rigid and pretty durable polymers. The plumbing goes into the walls, floors, etc. to each place where water goes.

Except that doesn’t work if your walls and floor can shake. You don’t want pipes break into your walls and leak internally. So pipes can’t be rigid, and you’ll have to compromise on durability for flexibility.

When buying an appartment, our plumbing was rated for 30 years. After that, even if everything else is in a perfect state, we’d all have to tear down the building walls and change the plumbing. It can be done, but cost wise it’s not so far from rebuilding from scratch.

Public buildings get away with way longer life by either paying for way more expensive techniques, and/or having the plumbing and any other things that could need inspection or maintenance put outside the walls. It works great, but is ugly as fuck and can have other practical issues (all pipes being exposed has weird safety issues, some europeans house do that and it’s really not great)

And that’s just plumbing.

PS: the second hand housing market is actually super healthy. In particular you get to see how the buildings and neighbors are doing after a few years, and the risk of a bad surprise is that much lower.

PS2: you can live longer than 30y in a house/appartment. Its value just plummets, except if you prove you made all the recommended updates to extend its useful life. It’s basically the same as keeping a car for 40 years. It can be done, but it’s not the generic nor recommended use case.

Re:Japan: The Harbinger State by freetime2 on Monday January 23, 2023 @07:45AM (#34488147)
Posted a similar comment up above, but this isn’t really true anymore. Search in any non-rural area and you’ll see lots of 30+ year old houses that have recently been remodeled, or are in the process of being remodeled.

Here’s one that I found in Takasaki with very little effort.

https://suumo.jp/chukoikkodate/gumma/sc_takasaki/nc_70960514...

Most of the houses being torn down are not what I would consider “perfectly serviceable”. There are usually serious issues such that the home isn’t worth saving.

Re:Japan: The Harbinger State by timr on Monday January 23, 2023 @11:05AM (#34490510)
It's true for more places than not. Yes, you're seeing more homes that have been remodeled and put up for sale than in the past, but these are the minority -- mostly newer mansions in cities. For many/most homes, it's often financially better for the owner to just tear them down, or leave them to rot (the latter is a big problem across Japan).

Small towns really do have programs to give away homes if you commit to remodeling them or tear them down. Even in bigger cities it isn't difficult to find abandoned properties.

(I'll also add: people see things like Cheap Houses Japan, and make incorrect assumptions about the state of the resale market. For a large portion of those "cheap" properties, you'd have to put in 2-3x the sales price just to make them livable. In other words, the owners are trying to solve their financial problem by dumping it on someone else who is more willing to deal with it. This could be appealing for someone who wants a vacation home and loves the area, but it's not a healthy housing market.)

Re:Japan: The Harbinger State by freetime2 on Monday January 23, 2023 @06:04PM (#34496371)
I think we are talking about different things here. The parent was referring to the practice of demolishing “perfectly serviceable” homes in order to construct a new home on the same land, implying a sort of deliberate wastefulness in the Japanese housing market.

But you’re talking more about markets where there is very little demand (due to declining population) for both new and used housing. Or homes that are in such a state of disrepair that it makes more sense to demolish them and rebuild from scratch.