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Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by amelius on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:33PM (#34469491)
It's freaking annoying that you can't use an Apple device without being connected to Apple.

There should be a law against that sort of thing, for hardware that you fully paid for.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by EMIRELADERO on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:37PM (#34469539)
While not specifically that, the EU's Digital Markets Act is moving things in that direction. I recommend reading the full text of the legislation, it has many gems.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by whiddershins on Saturday January 21, 2023 @02:40PM (#34469568)
You can wipe it and install Linux and use the hardware you paid for unencumbered.

So do you mean use the software you paid for? (Fair)

Or am I missing a nuance.

Edit: Or are you referring to iDevices.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by amelius on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:02PM (#34469792)
Running Linux on it is not the solution, as there is no documentation. Volunteers have been reverse engineering the GPU, but they still don't know whether their assumptions are all correct.

Also, is the Linux support actually official? Considering the above, I think not. I can't vote with my wallet for a company that has no clear map for the future, for my particular usecases.

Yes, iDevices are another problem. And yes, paying for the software when you use only the hardware is a problem too.

Too many problems with this company. I honestly can't understand why so many other hackers are happy being tethered and parent-controlled by Apple.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by cassianoleal on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:07PM (#34469858)
> I honestly can't understand why so many other hackers are happy being tethered and parent-controlled by Apple.

Obviously it varies from person to person.

Some just don't care about this at all and/or don't consider it an issue.

Some are just really used to it, or invested in the platforms, and don't want to waste time moving.

Some will just find much worse experiences for their taste anywhere else.

There are likely other personas in this story, these are just off the top of my head.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by shanebellone on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:59PM (#34471037)
I haven't used Apple in 5-8 years. I prefer to build my desktops and don't use my phone much, so Android is sufficient.

Frankly, I do not understand the disdain for Apple. They built their stack. That should be admired. Also, it's one ecosystem in the market.

Don't like it? Buy something else.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by EricE on Saturday January 21, 2023 @11:03PM (#34474136)
Amazing, isn't it - people love to act like if you don't buy an Apple device they will send jack booted thugs to confiscate your non-Apple tech. Sigh...
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by amelius on Saturday January 21, 2023 @05:08PM (#34471149)
Yes, fair, thanks for the reminder.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by cassianoleal on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:05PM (#34469828)
> You can wipe it and install Linux and use the hardware you paid for unencumbered.

Not all the hardware, or at least not yet if you're on Apple Silicon.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by Gigachad on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:29PM (#34470120)
Apple doesn’t place any restrictions on doing this, in fact they have set it all up to make install Linux as convenient as possible without directly adding drivers to Linux.

Mainline Linux can now run all the critical features of apple silicon laptops and the remaining stuff like power management is really just waiting on someone to work out what the best way to modify Linux to support it would be.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by snazz on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:27PM (#34470099)
Asahi Linux works decently well on Apple silicon Macs today.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by EricE on Saturday January 21, 2023 @11:02PM (#34474132)
Better than Linux on the vast majority of Windows laptops due to hardware stability and less variability.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by cassianoleal on Sunday January 22, 2023 @08:15AM (#34477043)
I was responding to this:

> You can wipe it and install Linux and use the hardware you paid for unencumbered.

My point is, it works. In fact, it works fairly well. Some people use it as a daily driver.

Not all drivers are finished though, which is what I meant by "not all the hardware". By installing Asahi you are deliberately choosing to not use the GPU, not having brightness control and a few other things are missing.

With that in mind, my point stands: by installing Linux on an Apple Silicon machine, you cannot "use the hardware you paid for unencumbered."

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:35PM (#34470194)
I agree, that's why I don't buy them. All of my computers are 9+ years old and run fully up to date Linux or Windows.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by frankfrankfrank on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:45PM (#34470316)
I’m not sure what would make you think that Windows is even in the slightest better.

In fact it is proven that not only is Microsoft deeply in bed with the whole US Government, but the amount of vulnerabilities and flaws and outright back doors that have been publicly exposed in Windows is wildly larger.

I don’t even understand this immense focus on criticizing Apple, as valid as it is, when people use Android and Windows and Google services that are all shown as clear hangar door sized vulnerabilities.

It really kind of boggles my mind. Apple is constantly being out under pressure by the government and is constantly pushing increasing security and privacy features, as imperfect as they may be, but that is in comparison to Windows and Android, folks.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:10PM (#34470566)
I use Linux but have a barebones Windows 10 install for one stupid stressful game that doesn't work on Linux due to anticheat. I audibly groan when rebooting to Windows to play.

With that said I can still use Windows without a Microsoft account.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by daf203723087 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:43PM (#34470891)
> With that said I can still use Windows without a Microsoft account.

Only because you are a power-user and know the magic trick to perform when installing Windows to avoid signing in with a Microsoft account.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by CharlesW on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:53PM (#34470985)
> With that said I can still use Windows without a Microsoft account.

It sounds like you may not realize that you have never needed an Apple account (i.e. an Apple ID, which might call an "iCloud account") to use macOS. No magic tricks are required, although some Apple services will naturally not be avaiable.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by LarryMullins on Saturday January 21, 2023 @06:49PM (#34472248)
Can you install homebrew without an Apple account? The last time I owned a mac (some years ago) it seemed as though I was required to have an Apple account to download the 'developer tools' required for homebrew to operate.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by mulmen on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:51PM (#34470970)
The CSAM thing did irreparable damage to Apple’s reputation. We foolishly trusted them as benevolent dictators of the walled garden. They demonstrated why that can’t work. Everyone is fallible, nobody deserves absolute trust.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by kbf on Saturday January 21, 2023 @05:58PM (#34471631)
They announced their plans, people objected and they listened. I don’t get what the problem is?
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by mdpye on Saturday January 21, 2023 @06:25PM (#34471944)
People wanted to believe they were incapable of considering or even conceiving of such a thing, so anti-thetical to the narrative they built sparring with some US law enforcement agencies...
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by LtWorf on Saturday January 21, 2023 @08:53PM (#34473283)
And by "listened" you mean "postponed until people forgot", right?
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by mulmen on Sunday January 22, 2023 @12:38AM (#34474679)
* * *
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by EricE on Saturday January 21, 2023 @11:00PM (#34474112)
Not sure why you think this only extends to Apple: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna

and I'm sure if I searched I could find the same thing for Google, Facebook and others too.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by mulmen on Sunday January 22, 2023 @12:38AM (#34474675)
* * *
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by MikusR on Sunday January 22, 2023 @03:09AM (#34475385)
Can you name/link even one such backdoor?
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by htag on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:55PM (#34470411)
Wow! Did you know you can run Linux on modern hardware? It's faster that way, and doesn't change the amount of telemetry reported.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by kevin_thibedeau on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:59PM (#34470456)
Modern hardware has backdoors that can't be disabled.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by oneplane on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:17PM (#34470642)
So does older hardware, nothing was gained here.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by michaelmrose on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:13PM (#34470599)
Is there any proof that such potential backdoors are practical and not theoretical? Have you considered non x86 hardware. If you were made of money for example Talos II or other more reasonable priced options?
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:03PM (#34470496)
Why? They all still accomplish what I need them to.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by LarryMullins on Saturday January 21, 2023 @06:55PM (#34472315)
For a given task, newer computers are more efficient than old computers. My 20 watt Intel NUC easily fills a role that I used to fill with a 200 watt surplus PC.

Whether or not an upgrade for efficiency is worth it is subjective though.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by hgsgm on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:07PM (#34470539)
Modern hardware isn't much faster.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by htag on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:29PM (#34470754)
2023 hardware is much faster than 2014 hardware.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by kitsunesoba on Saturday January 21, 2023 @05:16PM (#34471216)
So much so that 2023 laptops often trounce 2014 desktops, with a fraction of the power budget and cooling capacity.

It was true that power stagnated for a long time but it's finally back on the upturn.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by kalleboo on Saturday January 21, 2023 @08:02PM (#34472867)
The Windows installer won't even proceed without an internet connection and creating a Microsoft account, how is that any better?
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by EricE on Saturday January 21, 2023 @11:01PM (#34474125)
Maybe that changed with 11, but disconnecting all networking on setup was the easiest way to set Windows 10 up without being pestered to enter your Microsoft ID.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by MikusR on Sunday January 22, 2023 @03:16AM (#34475421)
Current versions of Windows 11 installer require modifications (for example with RUFUS) to be able to install without internet
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by themitigating on Saturday January 21, 2023 @03:36PM (#34470210)
I don't think more government regulation for such a specific reason is a good idea. Just don't buy their products.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by alwayslikethis on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:11PM (#34470587)
At some point this "voting with your wallet" argument gets ridiculous. How realistic is going through life without one of these slaveware devices? (defining slaveware as hardware or software that treats you as a slave to the corporation that made it) Most people are coerced to using it, not even knowing the difference, forcing you to use the slaveware as well.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by oneplane on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:21PM (#34470679)
Do you really think the general consumer knows about any technical details of the products they buy, and if they did, they would care enough to chose the less-comfortable option for no perceived gain? This almost never works, and I think you know that.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by themitigating on Saturday January 21, 2023 @05:07PM (#34471124)
Do you really think the general consumer knows any medical details of the vaccines they buy? Should we regulate misinformation?
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by LarryMullins on Saturday January 21, 2023 @06:57PM (#34472333)
We regulate vaccines, don't we? If you're so opposed to government regulation, vaccines are a very strange example to bring up.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by dotancohen on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:10PM (#34470568)

  > There should be a law against that sort of thing, for hardware that you fully paid for.
Why? That sounds like exactly the type of issue that the market will fix, by buying from a different vendor.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by oneplane on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:21PM (#34470670)
It seems the market isn't what you tink it is. At the same time, people also don't understand that the issue isn't what they think it is.

There is a vocal minority on most of these things:

- Powerusers and "learnt just enough to be dangerous" users complain about products not being targeted towards their wishes

- Privacy alarmists don't like what they can't control

- Commercial interests don't like having to pay for things, but do like getting paid for their own things

Technically all correct, but in practise this is nearly all in the same bucket as fastfood, sugar, air pollution etc. It's something that affects everyone, but it's much easier to deny it, ignore it, and just go with the nice, easy, comfortable, and profitable paths.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by dotancohen on Sunday January 22, 2023 @04:13AM (#34475667)

  > It seems the market isn't what you tink it is.
Then what is it?

I think that the market is an opportunity for companies to compete on features, price, service, and quality. Is that incorrect?

If Apple is not competing on features, then shouldn't the market provide an alternative company that does? Specifically, Apple requires a network connection to its servers to used basic functionality yet consumers do not like this. Other companies provide devices that do not require a network connection to its servers to used basic functionality, though possibly at a higher price (doubtful) or lower quality, or worse service. But the opportunity does exist.

I'm happy to hear where either my understanding is wrong, or where the market is failing.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by oneplane on Sunday January 22, 2023 @03:42PM (#34482010)
Just look around you, do you see any critical mass on both the vendor or consumer side that does something the way you describe it?

Every time someone comes up with some confident theory on markets or how things should be, or how bad the things are as they currently are, they forget that the reality is 'the market' (whatever their definition happens to be at that time) did not, in fact, change due to either supply or demand.

So when you were to say "the market demands offline devices, and the big companies are failing because they don't deliver that", you're either talking about a theoretical market, or about a different market, but not about the mass consumer electronics market. Because the big companies aren't failing, and regardless of the demand, no significant portion seems to be supplied.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by dotancohen on Monday January 23, 2023 @01:52AM (#34486221)

  > Just look around you, do you see any critical mass on both the vendor or consumer side that does something the way you describe it?
Yes, I do. I personally want a phone with a stylus. Samsung makes one. Somebody else wants a phone with a good camera - Apple and Samsung both make phones with terrific cameras. Somebody else wants a small phone. That's where Palm Phone and Unihertz fill the niche. Others want inexpensive phones, there is a flood of inexpensive Chinese phones. Others want security, or battery life, or E-ink screens. All of that is available. What segment do you feel is underserved?
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by oneplane on Monday January 23, 2023 @09:12AM (#34488909)
You're missing your own point: none of those do what you described in your reply. I'm not talking about that is there, I'm talking about what you proposed should be there but isn't there.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by LtWorf on Saturday January 21, 2023 @08:58PM (#34473322)
Yes consumers have so much power against cartels /s
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by dotancohen on Sunday January 22, 2023 @04:15AM (#34475671)
Then that's a failure of this particular market, not markets in general, no?

Or do you dispute that a market-based economy is the proper form for designing, selling, and buying goods and services?

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by LtWorf on Sunday January 22, 2023 @03:37PM (#34481959)
Consumer choice doesn't work to affect shit.

For example many people want smaller phones. However manufacturers all decided to make them bigger instead.

To function in society I need a phone, so I either buy one that needs 2 hands to be operated or be an outcast and have major problems having a normal life with no access to banking, communication and so on.

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by dotancohen on Monday January 23, 2023 @01:49AM (#34486210)
What's wrong with the Unihertz Atom, or the Palm Phone for that matter? They are both solid devices. They're not Samsung or Apple, but that's the point. The large manufacturers decided that you are not their target market, so stop buying from them. There exist smaller manufacturers that supply what you want.
Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by Someone on Saturday January 21, 2023 @04:50PM (#34470966)
> There should be a law against that sort of thing, for hardware that you fully paid for.

So, if Apple were to say you didn’t fully pay for the hardware, it would be OK?

Re:Is Apple checking images we view in the Finder? by EricE on Saturday January 21, 2023 @10:59PM (#34474103)
You can. It's just if you do disconnect from Apple entirely, then certain features like Visual Lookups break - unsurprisingly.

Not sure why there is this persistent myth that you can only use Apple tech if "connected" to Apple.