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Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by Loughla on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:02PM (#34265685)
I like this game, but I still can't even get shit into orbit. Pardon my language.

It makes me feel like I'm just an idiot. I don't think I am. But maybe I am. Who knows. All I know is that I feel bad for killing all of those little guys. They didn't even die in the pursuit of knowledge. They just died for my own hubris and naivety.

Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by mabbo on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:12PM (#34265819)
The key lesson you need to remember about orbit (in KSP or real life) is that orbit is sideways speed, not up distance or up speed. Going up, you will come back down. Go sideways fast enough, you'll come down but keep missing the planet below you, so you stay in space.

The most efficient way to do this would be to just go sideways really fast from the ground. Problem: there's a lot of air in the way. So the right thing to do (again, both in Kerbal and in real life) is to initially go just up, but as the air reduces, gradually switch to moving sideways instead.

Then once you're up there, you need to know the basics of manipulating orbits. Lesson number 1: you can increase the height of your orbit on the opposite side of the planet by increasing your speed in the direction you're currently going. So once you get your apoapsis (highest point) above 100km or so, you can turn off your engines, wait until you get there, then burn hard in the direction you're going and your periapsis (the lowest point of the orbit) will raise up like magic.

You'll be orbiting in no time.

Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by billfruit on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:20PM (#34265929)
One thing is that KSP uses manual staging, so timing of engine burns kind of matter. Is there features in vanilla KSP to automatically trigger staging?
Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by DuskStar on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:31PM (#34266104)
As long as you pay some minimal level of attention this shouldn't be a problem. 10s delays between stages won't prevent something with a minimum TWR of 2 and 4000m/s of combined dv from reaching orbit.
Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by mabbo on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:57PM (#34266435)
Timing of engine burns matters once you're in orbit, but vanilla KSP had tools to help you plan the basic ones.

During launch, the only real timing or skill involved was knowing when to start turning east (around 10km, imho), and knowing how to keep your speed below the thresholds that air resistance was eating your delta-V (there's charts around to help with that, but it's not hard).

If you're using solid rocket motors that can't be throttled or stopped, you have a bit less control.

Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by jerkstate on Thursday January 05, 2023 @06:07PM (#34268289)
Solid rocket motors can be limited to a percentage of their maximum output while you're building the rocket! This really upped my game when I figured it out. I try to plan my first solid booster stage to end before I need to extend the gravity turn into orbit, so I can shed the solid rocket booster mass and make the best use of my liquid booster delta-V, and additionally so the jettisoned solid boosters don't end up in orbit with me.
Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by remarkEon on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:51PM (#34267288)
You can automate this using the in-game programing language, but yes it does require a mod (kOS). I'm assuming/hoping that KSP2 has something similar in vanilla.

It's straightforward though, the documentation is here:

https://ksp-kos.github.io/KOS/structures/vessels/stage.html

Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by eunoia on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:18PM (#34265900)
What a fantastic comment. Really highlights what a good job KSP does teaching orbital dynamics through practice and RUDs (imo).
Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by jve on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:21PM (#34265950)
You talkin about this? https://xkcd.com/1356/ Oh no, I mean this: https://what-if.xkcd.com/58/
Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by rollcat on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:29PM (#34266915)
Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by dmd on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:45PM (#34266285)
"East takes you Out, Out takes you West, West takes you In, In takes you East." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Smoke_Ring_(novel)#:~:text...).
Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by yamtaddle on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:12PM (#34265823)
The key insight is that most of your fuel should be spent going sideways, not up. Getting to space is easy, staying there is what's (relatively) hard.

Even if you don't break out spreadsheets or game-specific calculators or whatever, you develop an intuition over time for what looks right as far as stage sizes, payload-to-fuel ratios, that kind of thing. I've done it all by eye & guesswork and have had successful out-and-back missions as far as Minmus and solar orbit (but my not taking it seriously enough and running some numbers ahead of time is probably why my attempts to reach the Mars-alike planet have just been big wastes of time—I just don't have the patience to figure out the ideal launch window and run the time ahead to then, to work out a proper budget for my fuel, and all that—plus those missions are easier with orbital rendezvous and I hate those, I can do them but they're such a pain in the ass)

Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by LarryMullins on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:40PM (#34267104)
One big advantage of eyeballing your rocket designs is you'll create plenty of opportunities for rescue missions so you can practice rendezvous. ;)
Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by smoldesu on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:06PM (#34265742)
For me, I found a lot of satisfaction building space planes. Much different takeoff/landing procedure and completely different craft design, but a lot easier to maneuver.

As for killing all those little guys, consider adding a final-stage parachute that decouples the crew cabin from the rest of the craft. It might take them a few hours to hit the ground, but you'll despotically murder less space goblins that way.

Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by plandis on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:08PM (#34265770)
You’re not an idiot, the game requires you to understand some rocketry and orbital mechanics concepts which has a learning curve —- the concepts are not difficult but if you don’t understand them you the game can be rough.

Thankfully there are plenty of YouTube tutorials that kind of summarize the basics.

Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by CabSauce on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:15PM (#34265858)
Scott Manley has some great intro videos that will help.
Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by ender341341 on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:19PM (#34266746)
Agreed, I got started by copying rocket designs from some youtubers and watching them launch them and attempting to copy their flights, starting off quite badly but once you get the hang of it you're able to go from low kerbin orbit to mun/minmus orbits to minmus landings/returns to mun landing returns and then work out towards duna then the moons of jool.
Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by HideousKojima on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:08PM (#34265767)
Point the navball about 45° east a little bit after lift-off (and then straight east after you leave the atmosphere) and use a lot more boosters and you'll get into orbit easy
Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by Moissanite on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:06PM (#34265745)
Moar boosters!
Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by iso1631 on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:07PM (#34265759)
Are you building your own rockets? Building a rocket to give you enough delta-v to get into low Kerbin orbit, or even to Mun, isn't terribly hard, just throw more boosters and more struts, go up for a bit about 80 degrees to the east, about 20k high start burning pretty much due east.

Remember you pretty much have to go up and sideways to get into orbit.

Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by zzz345345 on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:07PM (#34266586)
> Pardon my language.

at least you didn't say "pardon my French"...

Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by ecnahc515 on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:38PM (#34267080)
Have you done the training missions? I found those really helped.
Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by lost_tourist on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:54PM (#34267342)
You really have to follow a youtube video or text walk through to get it right for most of us limited amount of free time humans. After that it all sort of coalesces in your brain and you can get better at it. Kind of like learning a new computer language.
Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by justaj on Thursday January 05, 2023 @06:13PM (#34268351)
Have you tried using AI / ML to solve this problem? I feel like letting it generate optimum load and trajectory would be an interesting challenge.
Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by Fire-Dragon-DoL on Friday January 06, 2023 @12:01AM (#34271176)
You need somebody to show you the basics. I got an introductory 1 hour course from a friend and that made it.

As others said, you need to go sideways to get into orbit. This translates to going vertically for 5k meters,slightly sideways (e. g. 10°) until 10k, then like 25° until 15k, then keep going until 30k, as you feel like you can go more sideways without making your rocket explode, do it. Do it by trial and error if needed, without trying to minmax, better to go more vertically and then horizontal. Consider that you want to keep going up so that your apoapsis (highest point of the orbit) is above 70k, which is when there is no air at all. You can notice that the "space" music starts only when you hit 70k.

Once the apoapsis is out at above 70k (ideally 80 or more), shutdown engine and wait in map until spaceship is about at the apoapsis. When that happens, point sideways (same direction you were always doing) turn on engine and keep them running until the periapsis get to 70k or more. If it's less than 70k, you will fall back.

That's about it!

To continue, start playing with plotting in the orbital map, it will give you a good idea of what you can do. Keep in mind that the way you measure how far you can go is by checking the spaceship delta V.

Good luck!

Re:Kerbal Space Program free on Epic by Doxin on Friday January 06, 2023 @04:38AM (#34272796)
So other than the going-sideways thing, there's a bunch of stuff you can do with the construction of your rocket so you get more headroom for mistakes.

The main thing is "asparagus staging", which is where you set up fuel transfer pipes between stages on the same vertical level such that the outside engines run out first, and the inside engines last. Say you have a single stage, Add two fuel tanks to the side of the main tank with separators and hook up a fuel line feeding fuel from the outside tanks to the inside tanks. Add engines to the outside tanks. Repeat for more layers, transferring fuel from each layer to the previous. Doing this can get you a rocket powerful enough to almost go in a straight line to wherever. Whenever an engine runs out of fuel you can jettison that stage, and have the remaining fuel tanks all entirely full.

The second thing is to make sure your final stage is as small as you can get it. Use a tiny capsule, a tiny fuel tank, and a tiny engine. This makes the final stage more maneuverable but more importantly it exponentially decreases the size of the rest of the rocket. As a rough rule of thumb each next stage should be around 4x the size. Once your rocket starts getting kinda tall switch to building a massive set of asparagus stages. Use struts to make the whole thing stop wobbling.