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Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by majewsky on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:01AM (#34217877)
> The incident has also caught the attention of Binance CEO Changpeng “CZ” Zhao, who offered condolences and support in a Jan. 1 post. > > “Sorry to see you lose so much. Informed our security team to monitor. If it comes our way, we will freeze it. If there is anything else we can help with, please let us know. We deal with these often, and have Law Enforcement (LE) relationships worldwide," he wrote.

The difference between Bitcoin and TradFi shrinks every day.

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by rco8786 on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:16AM (#34218033)
> The difference between Bitcoin and TradFi shrinks every day.

It has been fascinating to watch society rethink/rebuild financial regulations from first principles and largely end up with the same conclusions. If anything, hopefully getting people to realize that all the rules tradfi institutions follow aren’t just made up for no reason.

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by pjkundert on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:23AM (#34218134)
You mean the rules that got our bank accounts frozen for giving 50 bucks to our trucker buddies to help them protest for the freedoms we thought we had?

Those “regulations“?

This incident alone has forged grim resolve in many people, including myself, to produce systems to grind TradFi to dust.

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by rco8786 on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:41AM (#34218328)
Yes, those. I made no claim about the morality of said rules. Only that it appears that the logical conclusion is the same in both spaces.

Good luck to you, competition is a good thing.

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by barbazoo on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:31AM (#34218214)
Do you have a source for someone getting their bank account frozen over $50 to their trucker buddies?
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by flutas on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:45AM (#34218371)
I'm pretty sure they are talking about Canada freezing personal accounts of people during the anti-mandate protests.

No clue on the veracity of the statement, but here it is repeated by news media[0] which is sourcing a member of the Canadian parliament[1].

[0]: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/mp-mark-stra...

[1]: https://twitter.com/markstrahl/status/1495472037438967808

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by revolvingocelot on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:00AM (#34218562)
Did you read your zeroth link? It's not the proof you think it is. In fact, I don't think that it's unreasonable to consider it obvious lying...

>In a tweet on Sunday, Chilliwack-Hope MP Mark Strahl said a woman called Briane, "a single mom from Chilliwack working a minimum wage job," had apparently fallen foul of the Emergencies Act, which was recently invoked by the federal government in a bid to stop protesters occupying streets in downtown Ottawa.

>Vancouver Granville MP Taleeb Noormohamed says he's "quite skeptical" about the claim and has written to Strahl asking for more information, offering to help rectify the situation.

>Strahl has declined to speak to CBC News about the tweet or give any more information about Briane.

>On Monday, the Globe and Mail reported it had been mistakenly sent an email by the Ottawa Police Service, in which a constable said they had gone through the list of donors and found two "Briannes," neither of whom lived in B.C.

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by flutas on Monday January 02, 2023 @02:29PM (#34222474)
> Did you read your zeroth link? It's not the proof you think it is. In fact, I don't think that it's unreasonable to consider it obvious lying...

I mentioned that in my previous reply. I never even made a claim of truth or not, I was just giving context for what I believe they were claiming. Don't shoot the messenger.

> No clue on the veracity of the statement

Also

> Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that".

> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by barbazoo on Monday January 02, 2023 @04:07PM (#34223676)
Good old Twitter troll Mark Strahl. Just pushing whatever lie suits his agenda.
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by dannyw on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:46AM (#34218385)
FYI, I'm an Australian and I had my bank account closed without reason 1 month after a $1000 donation to Wikileaks.
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by thefounder on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:56AM (#34218511)
Not sure why you are down voted. Let's hope your hn account wont be closed as well now "they" know what you did.
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by baseballdork on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:10AM (#34218676)
Because it is a statement without any context or evidence being used to try and back up another point without any evidence. There are reasons besides donating to wikileaks that could result in a bank account being closed in Australia.
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by thefounder on Monday January 02, 2023 @12:59PM (#34221184)
>> There are reasons besides donating to wikileaks that could result in a bank account being closed in Australia.

There could be other reasons but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the only reason. Visa and mastercard suspended payment processing for wikileaks.

Some banks were closing accounts if you purchased crypto so it can be even more arbitrary.

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by zimpenfish on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:22AM (#34218828)
Sounds like "one politician who refuses to prove the person actually exists."

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/02/23/chilliwack-mark-str...

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by api on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:28AM (#34218188)
What evidence do we have that this kind of abuse of power would be impossible in crypto world?

It would only be possible if everyone used anonymous coins like Zcash and Monero from their own wallets. Any use of exchanges or secondary networks like lightning provides levers to turn people off. Any corporation can be subjected to pressure by not just governments but large groups of people.

I don’t see people like the trucker protestors using cryptographic hardware wallets and waiting minutes for transactions to clear on a block chain.

BTW the trucker thing was a line for many people including myself, and I wasn’t anti-vax and did not vote for Trump. Freezing the assets of people for participating in a protest is not okay. The content of the protest is irrelevant.

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by plsbenice34 on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:46AM (#34218381)
We can use Monero with our own wallets right now and will continue to do so, nobody can stop that. How is that not evidence? Transactions are occurring right now. It doesnt have to be "everyone" doing it
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by dariusj18 on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:38AM (#34219014)
I imagine due to the transparency that is blockchain, you could create a regulatory system that refused payments from certain wallets as well. ex. This person sent $100 to BLM, make sure not to sell to him Nike.
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by rco8786 on Monday January 02, 2023 @01:08PM (#34221328)
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by danielvaughn on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:00AM (#34218561)
That's ultimately why I'm turned off by crypto. I love some of the ideas, from a technical perspective. I do think some aspect of it is going to survive and provide immense value in the future, though I don't know what it will look like.

But right now, you have people, mostly younger, thinking they know how to build a better world by starting over from scratch. In programming, we've all seen (and been) the engineer who sees an old codebase for the first time and thinks they could do a better job with a full rewrite. We know that rarely works. And yet somehow many of those same engineers think they can do the same with a global financial system that's been in existence for centuries.

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by gruez on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:39AM (#34219029)
>But right now, you have people, mostly younger, thinking they know how to build a better world by starting over from scratch. In programming, we've all seen (and been) the engineer who sees an old codebase for the first time and thinks they could do a better job with a full rewrite. We know that rarely works. And yet somehow many of those same engineers think they can do the same with a global financial system that's been in existence for centuries.

How is this any different than the people who are trying to write a whole social media/communications infrastructure from scratch (ie. fediverse), which turns out to be mostly the same as incumbents but worse? There's even an example of "[new system] is speedrunning the history of [old system]", which the recent debacle on mastodon where people were complaining about unfair/arbitrary bans and name impersonation, both of which are well known problems that centralized platforms ran into and they attempted to put a lid on.

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by danielvaughn on Monday January 02, 2023 @12:05PM (#34220326)
It's not different at all. Were you expecting me to disagree? That's exactly the point I'm making.
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by hartator on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:11AM (#34217981)
> If it comes our way, we will freeze it.

So much for “Code is law”.

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by birracerveza on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:19AM (#34218089)
Damn, it's almost like centralized exchanges are the exact antithesis of everything cryptocurrencies stands for. I wonder if that's why everyone warns against using them?
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by cma on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:22AM (#34218128)
Storing it yourself is similar risk to keeping lots of cash in your house.
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by birracerveza on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:27AM (#34218177)
"Storing cash in my house is unsafe. I'll just store it in someone else's house!"
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by tobltobs on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:53AM (#34218476)
If the other house has better protection against thief's and you trust the owner and inhabitants then, yes, maybe that makes sense.
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by roflyear on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:58AM (#34218523)
..... Yeah.... That makes sense to me?
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by nextaccountic on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:46AM (#34219123)
Storing cash in my house is unsafe. I'll just outsource this to people with expertise in storing cash
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by nubb on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:17AM (#34218050)
everyone is watching the avi case now to see whether a court will rule code is law. going to be super interesting to watch play out.
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by pjkundert on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:19AM (#34218088)
I assume you must understand how Bitcoin works, so…

Moving cryptocurrencies around barriers such as custodial exchanges freezing/losing/stealing it is one of the “superpowers” that makes real Crypto valuable.

Any thief dumb enough to deposit their stolen goods onto someone’s exchange deserves to have it frozen — heck, if they deposited it into my wallet, that’s what I wound do!

Explain again how this defeats “code is law”?

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by eternalban on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:27AM (#34218180)
It doesn't defeat it, it merely underlines that bitcoin platitudes evaporate in the light of practical use of "crypto".

Related sayings: "Feet of clay", "Emperor has no clothes". etc.

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by arez on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:18AM (#34218071)
yes, but that obviously doesn't apply anymore when you add it to an exchange, which seems fair tbh. I'm not a blockchain shill by any means
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by traveler01 on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:46AM (#34218377)
Most likely the hacker will use a DEX to convert his funds. But yeah there's no much difference between Exchanges and banks, they work basically the same way.
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by gruez on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:57AM (#34218516)
1. Is Changpeng “CZ” Zhao known to be someone who believes in "Code is law"? I know that some in the crypto community (specifically ethereum/difi) believes this, but this isn't as much of a gotcha you think it is because crypto isn't a monolith, and therefore there can be apparent contradictions from people within the crypto community.

2. On a more fundamental level, I don't see how this is inconsistent with "code is law". After all, if the attacker willingly transferred his stolen funds to a third party, then in the eyes of the network he legitimately gave up control of it[1], just like luke legitimately gave up control of his coins when his wallet was hacked. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[1] if you want to make it kosher in the eyes of the law, you could even sneak a clause in the ToS that says you have the right to freeze whatever funds you want.

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by nubb on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:16AM (#34218037)
the funny bits here are if the stolen funds are sent to binance.com (not binance.us) cz/binance will claim they don’t have jurisdiction.

it’s apparently illegal for cz to help americans via binance.com.

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by mensetmanusman on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:58AM (#34218527)
Even if it ends up the same, it will differ from the ethical framework of NYC cosmopolitans. Having more diversity of thought would be a good outcome.
Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by gitfan86 on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:00AM (#34218558)
I have been saying this since 2010. BTC is typical libertarian overreaction to government incompetence/corruption. The bailouts and lack of consequences for the financial sector in 2008 are infuriating, but getting rid of the government involvement in the financial sector isn't a realistic solution.

It would be like finding out that the fire chief in your town was filling up his car with gas that was supposed to only be for the fire trucks, and then deciding to totally get rid of the fire department. Yes, you end the corruption, but the next time there is a fire a whole block of homes burns down.

A decentralized trustless currency or store of value means that a minor typo OR a hack could cost you everything. And adding layers of protection on top of that makes the underlying layer completely pointless. If every exchange is going to stop any transactions involving my wallets the minute they decide I'm "suspicious" why not just leave my money in cash or gold or in a bank account?

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by panarky on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @12:29AM (#34228050)
It's not about eliminating government, it's about building an alternative that some people can use voluntarily if they wish, while others who want to keep the government system are free to do that at the same time.

It would be like a town where the government fire department was corrupt and stealing from the town's treasury, so some people move outside the city limits and set up their own volunteer fire department.

Maybe it doesn't work as well. Maybe there are fires the volunteers aren't prepared for. Maybe some government firefighters start fires in the unincorporated area to make townsfolk afraid to leave and join the rebel group. But at least the volunteers aren't stealing from the treasury any more.

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by repomies69 on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:02AM (#34218586)
> The difference between Bitcoin and TradFi shrinks every day.

Bitcoin is a protocol, I assume TradFi means traditional finance companies. The companies that deal with Bitcoin shouldn't be different from TradFi to begin with (and that's a good thing). They are typically holding and handling assets (Bitcoin) on behalf of others and philosopically I see only little difference whether you are doing that with Bitcoin, with physical assets like gold, or digital database rows like equities or bonds.

Using Bitcoin in a self-custodial manner is something else altogether.

Re:Bitcoin core developer claims to have lost 200 BTC in hack by BenoitP on Monday January 02, 2023 @11:53AM (#34220135)
True, but except for the inflation/coinbase-size/2008-style-bailouts part.