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Re:Is Hate Speech Legal? by barbariangrunge on Friday December 30, 2022 @01:53PM (#34188477)
We want to ban speech today that was considered acceptable 60 years ago; and the things we celebrate today are things people wanted to ban or censor 60 years ago.

You can’t have it both ways: if you want to speak freely about what you care about, you have to let the people you hate speak freely too. Over the last 100 years, it has done far more good than harm to let people express themselves

Re:Is Hate Speech Legal? by asmor on Friday December 30, 2022 @02:33PM (#34188990)
Typically, hate speech wasn't afforded the same reach 60 years ago that it may have now. You have to remember that all these idealistic views happened in the context of a very harsh monopoly on mass media and a much tighter control of which opinions would be platformed on there (can you imagine a communist being allowed to speak during the cold war, other suppression of speech in that area aside?)
Re:Is Hate Speech Legal? by barbariangrunge on Friday December 30, 2022 @03:38PM (#34189810)
I suspect it’s not so much the internet so much as bots and fake accounts that expanded the reach ago make nasty ideas grow. And algorithm newsfeeds designed to maximize emotional engagement. I may be wrong, but the issue isn’t free speech but fake people pushing topics into engagement maximizing systems that control most of the internet
Re:Is Hate Speech Legal? by e67f70028a46fba on Friday December 30, 2022 @05:59PM (#34191142)
There was a mass media monopoly in 1788?
Re:Is Hate Speech Legal? by croes on Friday December 30, 2022 @02:08PM (#34188668)
Are you sure?

Didn't it help that is wasn't unacceptable to call a black person n**r and to call a homosexual f**t?

Freedom of expression always goes in both directions. Your free expression can suppress my freedom of expression.

Re:Is Hate Speech Legal? by scarmig on Friday December 30, 2022 @02:15PM (#34188759)
> Your free expression can suppress my freedom of expression

How does even harmful speech (e.g. your examples) prevent your freedom of expression?

Re:Is Hate Speech Legal? by adamredwoods on Friday December 30, 2022 @02:38PM (#34189050)
>> How does even harmful speech (e.g. your examples) prevent your freedom of expression?

Fear, threat of property and physical harm.

Re:Is Hate Speech Legal? by yucky on Friday December 30, 2022 @03:07PM (#34189401)
So...eat the rich? Seize the means of production? ACAB? Things like that qualify?
Re:Is Hate Speech Legal? by willnonya on Friday December 30, 2022 @03:08PM (#34189425)
That is not the same thing though is it. People today fear being socially ostracized or losing a career over crossing an undefined or subjective line.

Neither of these fears are the same as actually preventing someone from expressing their views.

When threats become actual violence there are already laws to address that. Trying to preemptively protect people from mean words invariably harms more people than it purports to protect.

Re:Is Hate Speech Legal? by croes on Friday December 30, 2022 @03:37PM (#34189797)
>When threats become actual violence

Only physical violence or does psychological violence count too?

What about cyberbullying and mobbing?

Re:Is Hate Speech Legal? by croes on Friday December 30, 2022 @03:32PM (#34189728)
Ever heard of bullying?

You don't need physical force for that.

Re:Is Hate Speech Legal? by BlueDingo on Friday December 30, 2022 @04:20PM (#34190249)
Bullying is an additional level of action, right? If you're using a different verb it probably also means additional actions that aren't simply speech.

I dislike bad stuff too. Bullying is wrong and should be stopped. Hate speech is also wrong but I'll defend people's right to speak.

Re:Is Hate Speech Legal? by version_five on Friday December 30, 2022 @04:21PM (#34190258)
"Bullying" is actually a great example of something that once we decide the concept is bad, there is a rush from people to frame everything they don't like along those lines. I'd suggest that under the blanket and nebulous headline of "bullying" are actions that are already illegal like harassment and assault.