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Re:I am done. I give up by safety1st on Friday December 23, 2022 @07:38AM (#34105148)
Sure, the rich have more advantages than the poor. Always been that way and always will.

In our culture there is an immense preoccupation with the unfairness of this but the reality is that if you don't come from wealth and privilege, you need a different playbook. Dwelling on the inequity neuters you. If you want to win you need to figure out what the playbook is and then do the right things.

I found a playbook that worked by reading all the self help and business books I could (preferably from the public library because that was free and I was poor). My playbook ended up being: move to a country with a lower cost of living, and get good enough at freelancing online that I essentially had a safety net and a long-term runway for other pursuits.

I then tried a few different business models, each failed a bit less than the last until I hit a winner which bankrolls about a dozen people on my payroll.

A rich guy wouldn't have had to go through all that but I don't care. It's totally irrelevant to the requirements for success in my reality. Which were build my own baseline from scratch and then fail until I succeeded.

People born into easier paths than mine have sneered at many many elements of what I did over the years (living in a "shithole" country, working with a "shitty" tech stack, taking "shitty" Elance gigs that didn't pay enough, etc. etc.). Other people who were able to tolerate remaining victims of the system tuned out my story and focused on other things, like bitching about politics. I'm worth more than most of the people in both categories now and I feel like this is just the beginning. I haven't had children yet but if I do they will have far fewer disadvantages than I did.

There are different and easier playbooks than the one I used. If I was starting again I would probably go into a more conventionally profitable vocation and save for 15 years, studying business and coding on the side, and then start a business.

But either way the point is your playbook if you start poor needs to be different. It's not as easy as the one the rich guys have but that fact is a distraction. You should be too busy figuring out your plan to care.

Re:I am done. I give up by jnovek on Friday December 23, 2022 @08:02AM (#34105317)
Class mobility is generally regarded as a good thing for economies. It increases competition.

What you’re saying is that the only way for you to get ahead is by exporting your own lack of class mobility to another nation. This is akin to shipping trash to other shores so we don’t have to deal with the repercussions of landfills in wealthier nations.

If that’s considered a sane way to get ahead, home is not economically well.

Re:I am done. I give up by safety1st on Friday December 23, 2022 @09:22AM (#34106077)
You missed the point entirely.
Re:I am done. I give up by jnovek on Friday December 23, 2022 @10:31AM (#34106840)
Did you intend satire? Unfortunately, your post could’ve come straight from the mouth of more than one person I’ve met over the last few years.
Re:I am done. I give up by bumby on Friday December 23, 2022 @08:20AM (#34105467)
>* move to a country …*

I understand and agree with your overall point, but the fact that this an option underpins a certain amount of privilege.

Re:I am done. I give up by ip26 on Friday December 23, 2022 @09:07AM (#34105922)
How much privilege does it take to move to Guatemala or Pakistan?
Re:I am done. I give up by kolbe on Friday December 23, 2022 @09:38AM (#34106272)
HN commenters are apparently privileged for having to move to Guatemala to get by, whereas Guatemalians are refugees when they move to the US.
Re:I am done. I give up by bumby on Friday December 23, 2022 @09:46AM (#34106357)
This misses the point completely. One side is taking advantage of geo-arbitrage while the other is fleeing violence. It's a false equivalence.
Re:I am done. I give up by kolbe on Friday December 23, 2022 @10:34AM (#34106890)
The US has 18 large cities with a higher homicide rate than Guatemala. 50 with more than half of Guatemala's. The difference between the two countries from a violence perspective hardly constitutes "fleeing."
Re:I am done. I give up by bumby on Friday December 23, 2022 @10:41AM (#34106971)
This is the definition of cherry picking data. If you are comparing rates between countries, use the country data.

I have personal experience with refugees from Central America and Mexico. I can assure you, many are fleeing violence.

Re:I am done. I give up by kolbe on Friday December 23, 2022 @02:40PM (#34109804)
Mods didn't read it until you flagged it. The only rule my comment violated that you didn't violate is that my snark was from the wrong side of the woke spectrum.

Again, dismissing or diminishing someone's accomplishments because you accuse them of being privileged without knowing the first thing about them violates all of the following:

- Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Edit out swipes.

- Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.

- Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead.

So, go ahead and flag this too, because you know as well as I do that the rules have nothing to do with what they say, and everything to do with who is applying them.

Re:I am done. I give up by bumby on Friday December 23, 2022 @09:42AM (#34106311)
I dunno. What if they’re currently living in Bangladesh?
Re:I am done. I give up by safety1st on Friday December 23, 2022 @10:18AM (#34106707)
It's ironic you should mention Bangladesh because there's a guy on my payroll who lives in Bangladesh and I'm flying him to an international conference soon. It does indeed take more paperwork than usual, it will be a unique opportunity for him and probably not his last with me, he's a great employee.
Re:I am done. I give up by bumby on Friday December 23, 2022 @10:19AM (#34106735)
Working remotely != moving for geo-arbitrage. If anything, it's the opposite, where the employer is taking advantage of geo-arbitrage.
Re:I am done. I give up by ip26 on Friday December 23, 2022 @10:28AM (#34106802)
In this model, people living in Bangladesh skip the “moving” part. They already live in a low cost locale.
Re:I am done. I give up by bumby on Friday December 23, 2022 @10:31AM (#34106846)
So they have open doors to be wildly successful entrepreneurs?

My point is that the OPs “model” is a strategy for a limited population and not very generalizable. Within those caveats, I have no issue with their suggestion.

Re:I am done. I give up by kolbe on Friday December 23, 2022 @09:36AM (#34106247)
Thanks for the input, privilege police.
Re:I am done. I give up by bumby on Friday December 23, 2022 @09:43AM (#34106315)
Please review the HN Guidelines before commenting.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:I am done. I give up by safety1st on Friday December 23, 2022 @10:09AM (#34106615)
I mean you're not wrong but you missed my point. There's always an angle. That's how everyone succeeds. You find your angle and you exploit it. Everybody has at least one.

You choose here to focus on the fact that some people have more angles available to them than others. You call them privilege and believe them to be unjust. If you do that too much, you'll defeat yourself and destroy your own agency.

Maybe you're right, maybe they are unjust, I do have opinions on that sort of thing, I also think the best places to indulge those opinions are at the ballot box and at my desk writing checks to nonprofits. I mean I do screw this up and focus my time/energy/attention on them at inappropriate times. But I know it is a screw-up when I do it. No one is serving the greater good by wasting time.

Re:I am done. I give up by bumby on Friday December 23, 2022 @10:23AM (#34106765)
I acknowledged your point. I also agree that the individual should focus on what is in their power to exploit. But I think it's also important to recognize and work to fix systemic issues if we value a just system. Both can be true at the same time and I think it's sometimes a mistake of the hustle-porn mentality to focus exclusively on one while ignoring the other.
Re:I am done. I give up by kolbe on Friday December 23, 2022 @09:52AM (#34106424)
Says the person who attacked a commenter for being "privileged." I'm just helping defend him against your irrelevant accusations of privilege (even though you know nothing about him) while he's attempting to discuss ways to become successful without being a trust funder. He has given us a very helpful and insightful perspective, and since you cannot add to his useful discussion, you instead interrupt by him being the privilege police, because you think it will get you internet points.

He laid his heart and mind out for our benefit, and you rewarded it by attempting to bully him. Don't tell me I'm being uncivil.

Re:I am done. I give up by bumby on Friday December 23, 2022 @09:55AM (#34106462)
Nobody was "attacked". Saying that having specific options that aren't afforded to everyone is an acknowledgement that neither negates their point or is an attack on a person. It is, as you say, adding to the perspective, based exclusively on what they said; I'm not jumping to conclusions as you allude. Contrast that to your snarky reply. The fact that you thought that comment was an attack demonstrates a lack of the HN guideline to read the strongest possible interpretation and avoid snark. Your approach is not conducive to discourse.
Re:I am done. I give up by kolbe on Friday December 23, 2022 @10:02AM (#34106542)
No, you absolutely bullied him. And now instead of apologizing, you're doubling down. He never claimed to be a starving African child. He told us what he had to do to make up for his limitations, and instead of working with that conversation, you chose to denigrate his efforts.

You're right that I'm not adding to his discourse. I'm just trying to hush the people who are attempting to bully him.

Re:I am done. I give up by bandyaboot on Friday December 23, 2022 @10:34AM (#34106888)
Honestly I’m probably more inclined to land on the same side as you regarding this particular case regarding the suggestion or assumption of privilege. That being said, no, you’re being ridiculous. There was no attacking or bullying.
Re:I am done. I give up by kolbe on Friday December 23, 2022 @02:46PM (#34109860)
It's hyperbole, sure. But if you were to put it in a productive-unproductive and bullying-kindness matrix, it's in the unproductive/bullying quadrant.
Re:I am done. I give up by senko on Friday December 23, 2022 @10:33AM (#34106867)
There is always someone more privileged than you and someone less privileged than you.

What you do with the cards in hand is what matters. Other paths lead to insanity.

Re:I am done. I give up by bumby on Friday December 23, 2022 @10:35AM (#34106891)
No doubt, I’m just acknowledging the limitations of the OPs advice. It came across as a bit of a solipsistic perspective.
Re:I am done. I give up by brightball on Friday December 23, 2022 @09:33AM (#34106204)
There's no better education than trying and failing.
Re:I am done. I give up by kirso on Saturday December 24, 2022 @05:05AM (#34115498)
This + its really dependent on location and context as you said.

If you are outside of US, your chances of liquidity event decrease even further.

I think people always divide into two camps here, its either hard work or luck but the truth is somewhere in between.

As a normal non-privileged person, I can't afford placing all-in bets. But I can go to a different table with different stakes and different strategy.