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Re:John Carmack Leaves Meta by bee_rider on Saturday December 17, 2022 @06:53PM (#34033540)
What’s wrong with Arial? I mean I know it is disliked by typography fans because it is a ripoff of the popular Helvetica. But like, moral concerns aside or whatever, as a slightly worse ripoff of a good and popular typeface, it is unsurprisingly fairly visually appealing…

It seems like a reasonable product decision given that most people don’t care about typeface history.

Re:John Carmack Leaves Meta by bb88 on Saturday December 17, 2022 @09:31PM (#34034523)
I find Arial slightly discomforting, because the kerning is not as nice as with Helvetica. Helvetica feels "denser".

But more to the point, for a corporate logo, Arial feels like a cheap knock off to the more polished Helvetica. You can see this yourself, by looking at corporate existing corporate logos designed in helvetica and then redesigned in Arial.

https://www.ironicsans.com/helvarialquiz/

Admittedly this is personal preference in the end, but I feel like if HR is going to give someone bad news, they're going to do it in Arial. If Apple is going to release a life changing technology, they're going to do it in Helvetica.

Re:John Carmack Leaves Meta by bee_rider on Saturday December 17, 2022 @09:54PM (#34034641)
I should have thought more about the experiment. I was trying to identify the helvetica ones, looking for example for logos that looked slightly unusual or janky.

I guess it would fit your point a little more if I just looked for whichever I thought was more aesthetically pleasing.

Anyway, I got about 50% (accidentally closed the window, I think it may have been 51%?) so at least if I was the customer, the company would not seem to gain any advantage from licensing the superior font.

Re:John Carmack Leaves Meta by bb88 on Saturday December 17, 2022 @11:03PM (#34034950)
The "R", "r", and "t" characters are the way you can tell between the two fonts.

I think an example of a bad logo is Arial is this one:

https://www.designworkplan.com/wp-content/font-arial-everywh...

The A has too much space around it and it looks "uneven".

The bottom one of this one is Helvetica.

https://cdn0.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2009/10...

It looks "fuller", "denser" to me. And leaves me with an impression of a "sturdy" company.

Finally, here's Neue Helvetica 75 and Arial Pro Bold pages from Linotype. I just open them up in a new tab each and switch tabs to get a better idea for things.

https://www.linotype.com/1264130/neue-helvetica-75-bold-prod...

https://www.linotype.com/716034/arial-bold-product.html

Re:John Carmack Leaves Meta by bee_rider on Sunday December 18, 2022 @12:00AM (#34035182)
I’m not sure I see a huge quality difference in the second example, but the A in the first example definitely looks awful.
Re:John Carmack Leaves Meta by bb88 on Sunday December 18, 2022 @04:55PM (#34043978)
You can type "MIRABEAU" in Arial and Helvetica in the forms above, and you should see a definite improvement by using Helvetica.
Re:John Carmack Leaves Meta by outworlder on Saturday December 17, 2022 @09:32PM (#34034527)
It's a typeface that was designed to be legible in monitors, more than two decades ago. There are better choices today.
Re:John Carmack Leaves Meta by DonHopkins on Sunday December 18, 2022 @06:03AM (#34036585)
I shipped a successful game that used Comic Sans! ;)