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Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by emodendroket on Saturday December 17, 2022 @02:19AM (#34025617)
The argument seems to be that what the FBI is doing is more or less analogous to you clicking the report button, which hardly makes you a shadowy figure controlling Twitter if they act on your report.
Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by pasquinelli on Saturday December 17, 2022 @02:36AM (#34025684)
yeah except i'm just me and the fbi is the fbi.
Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by emodendroket on Saturday December 17, 2022 @02:38AM (#34025700)
Obviously these reports are given more priority but who's going to just ignore FBI reports?
Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by devmunchies on Saturday December 17, 2022 @03:15AM (#34025886)
For real. exactly why the govt is supposed to stay out of censorship.
Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by pasquinelli on Saturday December 17, 2022 @04:48AM (#34026387)
i'd probably just do whatever the fbi wanted so as to save myself a possible hassle. which is the point: the fbi can fuck with me. to say, "well, the fbi is just reporting stuff" ignores that the fbi has power. power is something people seem to have an odd tendency to ignore.
Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by ModernMech on Saturday December 17, 2022 @08:44AM (#34027671)
> power is something people seem to have an odd tendency to ignore.

Indeed, just as you seem to ignore Twitter’s power. They are protected from the FBI by the Constitution and the courts, and they have the money (read: power) to actually enforce those protections had they felt threatened or coerced by the government. The FBI may have power but they are not all powerful, not even close.

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by emodendroket on Saturday December 17, 2022 @01:20PM (#34030568)
So what is the revelation here, or what does it suggest we should do?
Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by benmmurphy on Saturday December 17, 2022 @02:46AM (#34025742)
It is very clearly an improper purpose. The FBI is trying to suppress 1A protected speech by reporting the tweets. The FBI is not allowed to suppress 1A protected speech. Imagine there was a button that would delete a Tweet and anyone could press it. Just because anyone could press the button would not make it legal for the FBI to press it.
Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by eganist on Saturday December 17, 2022 @02:51AM (#34025772)
> It is very clearly an improper purpose. The FBI is trying to suppress 1A protected speech by reporting the tweets. The FBI is not allowed to suppress 1A protected speech. Imagine there was a button that would delete a Tweet and anyone could press it. Just because anyone could press the button would not make it legal for the FBI to press it.

I keep seeing this, and I'm confused every time I see it, because speech on a private platform isn't protected by the first amendment.

Twitter can always say no to the feds (and other governments) in re: far more onerous and demanding requests than just an agent clicking a Report button, and in fact with far more official processes you can see the stats where they actually do just that. https://transparency.twitter.com/en/reports/removal-requests...

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by Gud on Saturday December 17, 2022 @03:38AM (#34026010)
Perhaps it’s not a 1A issue when the FBI clamps down on a corporate platform, but it reminds me of how fascist states operate, not a democratic republic.

In the end the public political discourse needs to move away from corporate run forums. Not sure about Mastodon, but I’m hopeful future iterations of online forums will be more decentralized again.

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by devmunchies on Saturday December 17, 2022 @03:26AM (#34025935)
> Twitter can always say no to the feds

I can also say no to the feds if they ask me to assassinate someone but it doesn’t mean they aren’t breaking a law by asking me.

Would be a crazy constitutional loophole if the govt simply needs to ask citizens to censor each other (1a), steal their neighbors guns (2a), tell husbands to prevent their wives from voting (19a), etc.

If these censorship request were about bomb threats or something that’s one thing, but they are mostly just spicy political takes. FBI needs to stay in their lane.

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by Apocryphon on Saturday December 17, 2022 @03:30AM (#34025953)
Would it be any different if those FBI agents, after work, hit the report button from personal accounts?
Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by devmunchies on Saturday December 17, 2022 @03:36AM (#34025991)
Personal accounts in your own time and not in any way as a representative of the US govt, and tax payer dollars aren’t paying for my time? Seems more reasonable to me. Especially if it isn’t a regular thing. a good question for a court to decide.
Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by paulgb on Saturday December 17, 2022 @07:38AM (#34027246)
> If these censorship request were about bomb threats or something that’s one thing, but they are mostly just spicy political takes.

There’s some selection bias here — the tweets we see in the thread are the ones twitter didn’t remove and the accounts twitter didn’t ban.

Twitter surely has the deleted tweets around somewhere, but it doesn’t seem to have been provided to the twitter files reporters.

https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1603857596112330758

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by acdha on Saturday December 17, 2022 @06:57PM (#34033563)
Twitter’s data model stores Tweets as a stream of records. When you delete a tweet, it stores another record which consumers are required to honor saying that the first record’s ID was deleted.

Twitter’s internal tools still have all of that data. In most cases the Internet Archive also does, too, which is how people have confirmed that, for example, the tweets in the famous “handled” email were nudes in violation of the non-consensual policy with no overriding news value.

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by refurb on Saturday December 17, 2022 @03:08AM (#34025852)
I keep seeing this, and I'm confused every time I see it, because speech on a private platform isn't protected by the first amendment.

Ummm… yes it is when the speech is being suppressed by the government?

That’s kinda the entire point of the 1st amendment.

The courts have ruled that the government asking a private party to censor is no different than the government censoring itself.

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by emodendroket on Saturday December 17, 2022 @03:15AM (#34025885)
What case did they rule that? It seems pretty routine that they get in contact with newspapers for this purpose so I'd be at least a little surprised to learn that it's been ruled unconstitutional but they're just flagrantly doing it anyway.
Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by refurb on Saturday December 17, 2022 @03:23AM (#34025922)
It seems pretty routine that they get in contact with newspapers

Nothing says they can't contact papers.

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by KingOfCoders on Saturday December 17, 2022 @09:17AM (#34027921)
But they can't contact Twitter and express their opinions?

The government routinely speaks to news papers about the government opinion on articles and how they are wrong. That's not censorship. Holding a figurative pistol to someones head and say "change this line" is censoring and supressing free speech.

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by simpleblend on Saturday December 17, 2022 @03:27PM (#34031891)
Right, so instead of exposing themselves legally they do an end run of telling Twitter to ban and writing smear campaigns. Which is they did to Dr. Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford and Dr. Martin Kulldorff of Harvard.
Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by refurb on Sunday December 18, 2022 @12:12AM (#34035239)
Of course they can express their opinions. But it's not black and white.

The Twitter Files already has a statement from a Congressperson that Twitter's actions with the Hunter laptop will "result in a blood bath" during Congressional hearings.

If the 800 lb gorilla that is the US government is threatening a "blood bath", do you really have a choice when they ask for your "cooperation"?

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by KingOfCoders on Sunday December 18, 2022 @05:02AM (#34036337)
In Germany yes, in the US, I don't know.
Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by emodendroket on Saturday December 17, 2022 @01:13PM (#34030474)
So if they contact the WSJ and try to get them to spike a story that's fine, but if they tell Twitter "we think you should remove these tweets for violating your policies" that's not? I would love to see what the case is because I can't understand how that would make sense.
Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by spritefs on Saturday December 17, 2022 @03:51AM (#34026073)
> Twitter can always say no to the feds (and other governments)

In practice, can they? Leave out the part about other governments for a second, just consider the US govt

If you're doing moderation at twitter and Yoel Roth is above you, are you going to tell the FBI to screw off? Especially considering Roth is (apparently, according to Taibbi) meeting regularly with them. From a job security standpoint, how do you think the average white collar employee will behave?

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by imnotjames on Saturday December 17, 2022 @04:38AM (#34026338)
In practice, yes. They did.

I have worked at another organization (hosted server provider) where I was in contact with the FBI and other law enforcement.

There's a world of difference between what was shown they did at twitter by noting things that were "worrisome" or against a reasonable site's ToS and forcing anyone to take things down.

I have told agents that certain materials were acceptable and that we would take no action. Not much they could do there without an actual warrant.

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by nverno on Saturday December 17, 2022 @04:09AM (#34026159)
> I keep seeing this, and I'm confused every time I see it, because speech on a private platform isn't protected by the first amendment.

It is protected from the government. Of course, Twitter can decide to censor whatever they want, but if the government was threatening either Twitter or individuals on the platform, over protected speech, eg. criticizing the president, that would certainly implicate the 1A.

The government simply asking, with no implied threat, seems to be OK [1]. But, I don't think it builds confidence amongst the citizens if they were seen doing this very often.

1. https://reason.com/volokh/2021/07/19/when-government-urges-p...

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by Apocryphon on Saturday December 17, 2022 @04:15AM (#34026199)
Thanks for bringing some actual legal citations and interpretations to this discussion. Most of this thread appears to be a lot of handwaving about the constitution.
Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by fallingknife on Saturday December 17, 2022 @04:50AM (#34026404)
A government whose representatives frequently rail against big tech companies, call for regulation, and drag executives in for hearings, "politely requests" something to be removed. It's pretty easy to see that Twitter might think that saying no has consequences.

Furthermore, the FBI is a police force. They have no business searching Twitter for content to remove unless that particular content is involved directly in the investigation of and filing of criminal charges.

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by Apocryphon on Saturday December 17, 2022 @04:54AM (#34026417)
Funnily enough according to Taibbi, Twitter was being unusually obsequious when other companies, such as T-Mobile, weren't.

https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1603890210252668928

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by faddypaddy34 on Saturday December 17, 2022 @07:10AM (#34027102)
Except it's not clicking the report button. See the FBI could have a special agent assigned to clicking the report button instead of directly emailing Twitter asking for the removal of things that are in some cases obvious jokes.
Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by naasking on Saturday December 17, 2022 @08:17AM (#34027498)
> The argument seems to be that what the FBI is doing is more or less analogous to you clicking the report button

Weekly meetings between the FBI and top Twitter executives is "akin to clicking the report button"? Name one other Twitter user that had this privilege. I think that's a pretty strong sign that you're trying to stretch this analogy too far.

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by TOMDM on Saturday December 17, 2022 @08:40AM (#34027644)
Where are you getting weekly meetings from?

This set of tweets details 150 emails total over a period of over two and a half years (jan 2020 to sept 2022).

It even specifically quotes their mention of their quarterly meeting.

My biggest problem with people who think the Twitter files are A Big Deal, is their seeming inability to accurately describe the contents.

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by naasking on Saturday December 17, 2022 @08:44AM (#34027672)
> My biggest problem with people who think the Twitter files are A Big Deal, is their seeming inability to accurately describe the contents.

Or maybe you're just ignorant of the contents:

https://news.yahoo.com/twitter-executive-met-fbi-weekly-0150...

Re:The Twitter Files, Part Six by TOMDM on Saturday December 17, 2022 @08:53AM (#34027736)
Ah, I was reading this dump for the proof of a weekly mention, my mistake.